Voltron-Evo; jonescg's new electric race bike

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
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Voltron-Evo; jonescg's new electric race bike

Post by pottz » Fri, 26 Sep 2014, 16:11

Chris, you are correct it is a 2 day event but I'm pretty sure club1000 is only racing on Sat unless the race schedule has changed. (I'll check for everyone)

There should be some practice start sessions scheduled in for our next practice. I'll be sure to try get us out there and prove to the club it can start as good as anything else. It's fair what they have done, they have accepted a bike that clearly doesnt fit the class and are concerned about all riders safety.
I only hope they degrade me or give us an exemption for Kings of wanneroo and let me race it there.

Oh and don't underestimate how hard those guys can launch a bike, lots of RPM and clutch slipping means they get off the line extremely fast!! Voltron won't be left behind but it would be hard pressed to beat them.
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Post by jonescg » Fri, 26 Sep 2014, 16:12

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 26 Sep 2014, 16:16

We can help with degrading you Image Would be awesome if they'll let you race Kings. I guess we'll just have to see what lap times we're running and take it from there. Yep, just checked and we're only up on Saturday for Rd 5.
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Post by GRMarks » Fri, 26 Sep 2014, 18:15

What were the results from your last race meet in Sydney?
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Post by pottz » Fri, 26 Sep 2014, 19:24

No idea why the pics are not working, but we had a brilliant round last one.
We put a good writeup here with pics and video

viewtopic.php?t=4247&title=2014-efx-ele ... ing-series

Next time I won't confuse everyone and just write here.



Last edited by pottz on Fri, 26 Sep 2014, 09:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jonescg » Sun, 28 Sep 2014, 04:44

If anyone is keen, Mike, Pottz and I will be up at Wanneroo Raceway tomorrow (Sunday) for a tuning day. Hopefully the weather holds out!
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Post by g4qber » Sun, 28 Sep 2014, 08:56

Guys are at the track now til 3pm

68secs

new rider, lowered suspension settings.
65-7 secs

Danny also did 65s
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Post by jonescg » Mon, 29 Sep 2014, 03:32

Wow, massive improvements throughout the day. Last time we were at Barbs Pottz was doing 70 sec laps, but we had no top speed due to the field weakening not being tuned, and we had a 238 kg bike. Now with the lighter pack (GVM of 210 kg) the first session times were in the 68s. Since this was the day to try stuff, we lowered the entire setup by about 20 mm front and rear. Massive improvement in the corner exits and smooth, predictable braking. Pottz was smashing out consistent 65s on the last session. Paul Cox had a go too, and you couldn't wipe the smile of his face! "It wheelies at Skyline... and out of the Basin... and down the front straight..."

Mike got some awesome video of his first response when he took his helmet off - can't wait to see that again Image

We did push the battery to the BMS beeping point, but it was only under hard accelleration on the back straight. It charged up again just fine and performed well for the rest of the day. Something to be careful of though. We're good for 8 fast laps, but the out lap and in lap will have to be pretty subdued.

Happy days from Team O'Hanlon Electric Motorsport Image
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Post by 7circle » Mon, 29 Sep 2014, 06:58

Stinkin to hear that racing thrill is is really burning hot back on your home turph.

Look forward to seeing some vids with the G circle expanded out to 2²
E=mc² will be under consideration soon.


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Post by jonescg » Sun, 05 Oct 2014, 05:01

We had another good day at the track today, but not ideal. The bike is fine and working as reliably as always. Paul Cox, who was riding it for us while Danny was working, went out and was putting in some confortable 66 s laps, and the odd 65. We tried a few suspension changes but they made it worse, and he pulled into the pits so we could adjust. He rode off in a hurry to join the pack, only to get black flagged for speeding in pit lane Image He knew better.

Seems from now on the main game will be adjusting the geometry, re-valving the forks and getting some confidence into the front end. It's still pretty steady under brakes, provided we pull the forks through the triple clamps at least 15 mm.

We never finished any of our three races because of 1. black flag, 2. a crash resulting in a red flag meant a full restart after two laps. Sicne we had the small pack in, we would not have been able to finish the race anyway, and 3. we didn't have the 90 minutes needed to recharge the pack after race two to be ready for race three.

Still, we have learned so much from one day at the track, we know which direction we need to be heading in. It's all suspension and setup from now onwards.

Best of all, the MCRCWA made an amendment to the supplementary regulations for machine eligibility in Clubman 1000. It now includes "any 601 to 1000 cc bike, triples and twins up to 1250 cc, and any equivalent electric motorcycle of greater than 150 rear wheel horsepower"

That's one for framing and putting on the wall. Image Hope to be back out there on Wednesday, and possibly thursday.
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Post by weber » Sun, 05 Oct 2014, 05:10

Awesome regulation change! You're making history. Well done.
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Post by jonescg » Sun, 05 Oct 2014, 17:59


Fly-by from the pit wall
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Post by bga » Mon, 06 Oct 2014, 23:03

I have an idea! (they don't come along very often)

Voltron now has two batteries, although the big one is heavier than useful for racing, but may be useful as a quick charger along the lines of Rob Mason's battery powered booster that allows charge to flow from one battery to another.
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Post by jonescg » Tue, 07 Oct 2014, 02:37

I too had that idea - although it would put some serious strain on the contactors. Perhaps the precharge resistors could be amended to suit?
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Post by g4qber » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 02:16

voltron evo with Paul Cox's no.

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ImageImageImage
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Post by weber » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 02:45

bga wrote:Voltron now has two batteries, although the big one is heavier than useful for racing, but may be useful as a quick charger along the lines of Rob Mason's battery powered booster that allows charge to flow from one battery to another.
jonescg wrote:I too had that idea - although it would put some serious strain on the contactors. Perhaps the precharge resistors could be amended to suit?

Precharge resistors aren't needed and won't help. You will of course need some extra cells in series with the source pack. It won't be a problem for the contactors so long as they are rated for the current, and the voltage difference between the source and destination packs is less than about 28 volts.

[Edit: Clicked "Post" instead of "Preview". Sigh.]
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Post by jonescg » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 03:06

I guess the 'contactor preservation' strategy would be to activate both battery packs and then plug an Anderson extension lead between them (or have a big reg button to do the same). A fully charged 9 kWh pack would be 80 V more than the depleted 6 kWh pack. Assuming the iR of the two packs totals 5 Ohm, we're looking at a current of about 16 amps. Not bad really...
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Post by weber » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 05:14

jonescg wrote: I guess the 'contactor preservation' strategy would be to activate both battery packs and then plug an Anderson extension lead between them (or have a big reg button to do the same). A fully charged 9 kWh pack would be 80 V more than the depleted 6 kWh pack. Assuming the iR of the two packs totals 5 Ohm, we're looking at a current of about 16 amps. Not bad really...

Forget what I said about 28 V. That's only for currents over about 100 amps. 100 amps would be 10C, a 6 minute charge, if it were possible to maintain that current.

Look at your GX14 contactor datasheet.
http://www.gigavac.com/pdf/ds/pp/gx14.pdf
They're still showing 50,000 operations at 150 A and 800 V. As you calculated, the resistive load of this battery-to-battery charge scenario is not an issue for the contactors. Save the Andersons. Use the contactors. It's not like charging inverter capacitors where you could pull 1000 A at 700 V briefly as the contacts touch, if you didn't precharge.

The problem is maintaining a high current through most of the charge. That 80 V difference must go in the other direction when you're near the end of charge. Actually more like 67 V since the 15 Ah pack will still be at 1/3 charge when the 10 Ah pack is full. So you would need an extra 67/3.8 = 18 cells (actually 18S3P) on top of your 168S3P by the end of charge. A small add-on pack just for charging.

To maintain the current you'd have to switch in more and more cells as the charge progressed, going from 168S3P to about 186S3P. Maybe it could be done in just 2 or 3 big jumps so you didn't need too many contactors to switch the taps.
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Post by antiscab » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 05:21

5 ohms is very high resistance - are you planning on adding a resistor? that would get rather hot dissipating 1200W
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Post by antiscab » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 05:28

weber wrote:
To maintain the current you'd have to switch in more and more cells as the charge progressed, going from 168S3P to about 186S3P. Maybe it could be done in just 2 or 3 big jumps so you didn't need too many contactors to switch the taps.


another option could be to use a high current power supply to maintain a constant transfer current, like this one:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... ATID=999#3

I know the guys at EV Works have one that goes up to 100A (IIRC), but not sure where they got that from

you shouldn't need much voltage difference to get a high charge rate
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Post by weber » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 05:55

Hmm. Yeah. Aren't we looking at about 2 mR per 5 Ah cell (except at the extremes of charge). So that'd be 168 mR for a 168S2P pack and 112 mR for a 168S3P pack, for a total of about 0.28 R. 80/.28 = 290 A. At 80 V that still allows for 20,000 cycles of your GX14's. And that 290 A (29C) wouldn't last very long. It would taper off very rapidly and you'd have to switch in more cells.
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Post by jonescg » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 16:37

I've assumed about 20 mOhms, which is probably a worst case scenario. More than likely they are still around the 5 mOhm each. So yeah, the currents will be high at first. Might be worth burning an Anderson connector first before ruining a contactor.
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 13 Oct 2014, 17:30

Why not make a second 6 kwh pack from the 9 kwh pack and have 2 packs?
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 13 Oct 2014, 17:31

with the bike being tuned (supension wise) for the 6wkh pack, would you ever put the 9kwh pack back in?
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Post by Adverse Effects » Mon, 13 Oct 2014, 17:34

GRMarks wrote: Why not make a second 6 kwh pack from the 9 kwh pack and have 2 packs?
i tend to agree

how hard would it be to make the packs swappable in the bike?

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