Geerant's Magnatron

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by T1 Terry »

Sorry to hear that Geerant, I've sent you a PM in regards to the batteries. How much preparation work did you loose? I hope you didn't suffer badly house wise from the floods too.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

Well yesterday I restarted my Electric car project and bought another donor chassis. I managed to get the exact same model as last time which will be convienient - 2002 Mitsubishi Magna Commonwealth Games LM Edition, burgundy colour.

I have all the parts from last time minus the batteries, but as i don't have a workshoip ill just be doing minor modifications leaving the car drivable for the time being..
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 4316
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by coulomb »

Geerant wrote: Well yesterday I restarted my Electric car project and bought another donor chassis.
Great news! We could use a conversion to compare performance with.
I have all the parts from last time minus the batteries, but as I don't have a workshop I'll just be doing minor modifications leaving the car drivable for the time being..

So what happened with the batteries? I guess they got flooded and ruined; were they insured? I imagine the house insurance company might have fought that one, unless you let them know about the extra insurable items before they were lost.

So without a workshop... things just happen slower?
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

coulomb wrote:
So what happened with the batteries? I guess they got flooded and ruined; were they insured? I imagine the house insurance company might have fought that one, unless you let them know about the extra insurable items before they were lost.
I managed to convince EvWorks to refund the batteries for the cost price so I didnt lose much there. I was renting in Brisbane so I just lost possessions.. I have now moved to Sydney.
So without a workshop... things just happen slower?

It will be very slow without a workshop / garage and infact, I would need one to finish it off. But for now I can pull out the seats and do measurements for the battery boxes etc.

Last edited by Geerant on Sun, 31 Jul 2011, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
gholm
Groupie
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri, 27 Aug 2010, 04:48
Real Name: James Neale
Location: Coogee
Contact:

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by gholm »

Welcome to Sydney, Geerant and sorry to hear about the delays related to the floods. Good news to hear you're back on track though and I'm very keen to see this beast underway.

regarding not having a garage/workshop, I hear you as its exactly my position. It can be done but it is very weather dependent, so going is slow.

So just plan to do all indoor stuff (wiring/soldering/12v ) on bad weather days and installs to car on warmer ones. Sometimes it's a bit of both at once, and I've even rigged up a tarp on some of the lengthier spells of wet to solve that. Either way you'll find you're in the thick of it without even realising.
(The old "huh, it's 3am already?")

Good luck.
User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 3611
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by jonescg »

Hi Geerant!
I am most interested in your motor - the Evo AFM. Are you running the 750 V max version or the 450 V version? What is the useful voltage range that they operate in?

Cheers,
CHRIS
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

jonescg wrote: Hi Geerant!

I am most interested in your motor - the Evo AFM. Are you running the 750 V max version or the 450 V version? What is the useful voltage range that they operate in?



Cheers,

CHRIS


I am running the 4 turn version of the motor with a lower top speed and higher torque. I will be using 125 LiFePO4 batteries in series for a terminal voltage of 400V. I am not sure of there useful operating range.

Cheers.
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 3611
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by jonescg »

Holy crap! Welcome back to the forum! Image

OK, I will be running the same motor (#4 wind) with a 640 V nominal pack. I will be relying on the inverter (a PM150DZ) to provide the overspeed.

Hope your build comes along soon!

Cheers,
Chris
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

jonescg wrote: I will be relying on the inverter (a PM150DZ) to provide the overspeed.


Yeah it seems like it has been a lifetime since I have done anything on my car. Had a quick look at your motor inverter, WoW that thing looks good!, do you have a datasheet for it?

Last edited by Geerant on Wed, 01 Aug 2012, 18:40, edited 1 time in total.
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
woody
Senior Member
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat, 21 Jun 2008, 02:03
Real Name: Anthony Wood
Location: Mt Colah

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by woody »

Price is Pricey: new eagle

Manufacturer

70kW/100kW $9500
100kW/150kW $10500
120kW/240kW $12500
240kW/360kW $17500

Continuous/peak, your choice of 160-360V or 300-720V

PM or Induction Motor, from the manual looks like the factory configures for each motor model.
Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

So.. the unfortunate day has come when i've had to admit defeat..
I have officially given up on the conversion and as such everything I have is now for sale, at heavy discounts.

Please PM or email me if you're interested in anything I have mentioned in my build. I will be putting a list together shortly of everything I have worth selling, and putting them up on ebay.
All items located in western Sydney.


Below is a rough list:
Motor - 1x Evo Electric 3φ AC Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor - Axial Flux
Motor Controller - 1x Tritium 3φ AC Pure Sinewave Inverter
Battery Charger - 1x Brusa NLG513-SX fully Programmable Battery Charger
DC-DC Converter - 2x Powerbox PBB20C-12X
Batteries - 125x Sinopoly 100Ah "Black" Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Batteries
BMS - 1x Tritium IQcell Battery Management System (100Ah Version)
Air Conditioner - 1x Masterflux Sierra 02-0434Y3 Electric Compressor (including reverse cycle valve
Power Steering - 1x Mocen Electric Power Steering Hydraulic Pump
Power Brakes - 1x VBS100 Electric Brake Vacuum Pump

Last edited by Geerant on Mon, 13 Jan 2014, 06:29, edited 1 time in total.
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 3611
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by jonescg »

I really wish I had the dough to buy that second motor...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.
User avatar
Gabz
Senior Member
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu, 08 Aug 2013, 03:30
Real Name: Gabriel Noronha
Location: Maitland NSW
Contact:

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Gabz »

Geerant wrote: So.. the unfortunate day has come when i've had to admit defeat..
I have officially given up on the conversion and as such everything I have is now for sale, at heavy discounts.


what killed it time, money or skill ? or a combo of all ?
User avatar
BigMouse
Senior Member
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu, 28 Oct 2010, 02:39
Real Name: Vincent Tannahill
Location: Silicon Valley
Contact:

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by BigMouse »

It's a shame. There seems to be a lot of unfinished projects popping up lately. Sounds like you've got a lot of nice kit there.

Is your A/C compressor the 12v kind? My conversion is in need of one.
T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by T1 Terry »

Can you guide me to more info about this motor please, it could be what I'm looking for to do the big bus hybrid drive system. The thought of 400 volts DC absolutely scares the crap out of me, but to get what I want I may have to get over my phobia and up my skill level big time.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 3611
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by jonescg »

Some information about the Evo AFM140-4 motor:
Evo Electric wrote: The voltage constant for the AF-140-4 is 1.44Vs/rad, measured in Vpk, line to line. Hence, your back emf is about 150Vpk/1000rpm. Thus, to spin it up to 1000rpm you need a bit more than this in terms of dc voltage from the battery, let’s say 160Vdc. From this point of view you are right that you would need about 800Vdc to spin the machine up to 5000rpm. However, what you would typically do is employ field weakening, which effectively uses current to supress your bemf. Hence, you will find that it is perfectly possible to spin the machine to 5000 rpm on a 600Vdc or even lower dc bus. If you dc voltage is about 640Vdc, as I understand from your email, you will be perfectly fine running the AF-140-4 machine.

You are also right that you could potentially use a AF-140-3 machine instead. This would mitigate the need for field weakening but would have two big drawbacks: Firstly, the inductance of the machine is much lower, which translates into a choppier ac waveform and, consequently, magnets which will overheat when operated at higher speeds for a longer period of time. This is difficult to quantify but the risk is very real. Once demagnetised, you will see an irreversible loss in performance, i.e. torque and power will drop significantly. Second, since you have a lower voltage constant on the AF-140-3, you also have a lower torque constant, which means that you need more current to produce torque. For example, the AF-140-4 needs about 350Arms to produce 600Nm whereas the AF-140-3 needs 465Arms to achieve 600Nm.
Just so you know I'm running a 620 V DC bus on my race bike with this motor. With the correct isolation, it's just a number. Keep the ELV isolation in good order and you'll be fine.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.
T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by T1 Terry »

Thanks for that, what sort of motor speed and kW output could I expect at 400vdc using the the Tritium controller?

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 3611
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by jonescg »

AC Motor power = 1.732 * Motor Voltage * Peak Motor Current * Power Factor * efficiency

P motor = 1.732 * (400 VDC/1.414) * 368 A * 0.80 * 0.97
P motor = 140 kW peak.

The inverter will only supply about 280 V RMS, the motor would probably only spin up to 3000 rpm, but at pretty significant torque. To get it to spin faster requires field weakening, which I'm not sure the Tritium controller does very well (however it has been improved a lot since the data sheet I'm getting numbers from was published).

Hope this helps!
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

That seems to match this data as tested at Tritium with my motor.

Image

This was done at 320v.

Last edited by Geerant on Wed, 15 Jan 2014, 05:16, edited 1 time in total.
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

BigMouse wrote: It's a shame. There seems to be a lot of unfinished projects popping up lately. Sounds like you've got a lot of nice kit there.

Is your A/C compressor the 12v kind? My conversion is in need of one.


It is, but this has been a popular item, and has already gone..
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
Geerant
Groupie
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon, 25 May 2009, 20:45
Real Name: Ben
Location: Sydney - West
MSN: geerant101@hotmail.com

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by Geerant »

Gabz wrote:
Geerant wrote: So.. the unfortunate day has come when i've had to admit defeat..
I have officially given up on the conversion and as such everything I have is now for sale, at heavy discounts.


what killed it time, money or skill ? or a combo of all ?


A combo of all really, time mostly... buying a house and a car seemed to have "Killed the electric conversion".. :P
Working on the "Magnatron".

[url=mailto:geerant101@hotmail.com]Email[/url] me for more details.
User avatar
4Springs
Site Admin
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu, 23 Dec 2010, 01:14
Real Name: Christopher Walkden
Location: Selbourne, TAS

Geerant's Magnatron

Post by 4Springs »

Geerant wrote: Working on the "Magnatron".

You'll have to change your sig! Image
Post Reply