gholm's Morris J2 Van- 1966

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
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Johny
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Post by Johny » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 14:13

You must have dotted the i's when you built it. Well done.

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Post by woody » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 15:49

Did you go to a random mechanic when you got a pink slip*?
Was he a bit confused?

*For non-NSW folks, Pink Slip is the annual registration / roadworthiness check where they give the car a once-over, check that the car isn't falling to pieces.

Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack

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Post by gholm » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 15:57

Thanks guys, but it was a really simple build.

Crimp well/crimp once, plenty of Noalox & some good quality components
(Zeva, Kostov, CALBs+Ev-Power BMS) = really not much to go wrong.

Ha, now I've blown it. Just waiting for the gods of gloating to sprinkle down some of their trickier glitches now I've said it out loud.

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Post by gholm » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 16:01

Ha, no, the guy who pink-slips it, is the same guy who did my blue slip when I originally rego-ed it, so he knows the vehicle well.

oh...In NSW, the blue slip is the (blue :) bit of paper that the Roads and Traffic Authority need from a certified mechanic in order to bring an unregistered or modified vehicle back onto the road.

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Post by jonescg » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 17:50

Doing a quality build is ALWAYS more important than performance. We can all put up with a slow machine, but no-one can stand an unreliable machine.

Well done! I hope it goes solidly for another 10 years.
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Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 22:46

jonescg wrote: We can all put up with a slow machine


Image Image Image speak for your self LOL i want FAST hahahaha Image Image Image

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Post by CometBoy » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 14:01

Actually ACMotor just mentioned the brake fluid change in another part of the forum.

One of the things that you tend to forget about when your conversion has been on the road for a few years is the changing of the brake fluid. I just changed mine yesterday (after a pH check) and it was really in serious need of a change. The EV has been on the road for over 4 years. The older vehicles that use DOT3 fluid should be flushed and changed every year (normally recommended) but in the past, I have always let it go 2 years between changes.

As you have stated, the simple basic conversions soon become a thing you take for granted and just charge and drive. Interesting measuring the brake pad and shoe ware yesterday, only very minor after over 4+ years. Surprised given no regen on my EV but I only does 8,000km per year and is very light (under 700kg).

Only other thing that I needed to do was replace the 21 Ah Aux battery – it was no longer holding charge for any period of time. But as for the main traction pack, I can’t tell any difference in performance but that Li-Ion upgrade was only done a couple of years ago so most likely too early?

Well done gholm!

Cheers
Bruce

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Post by gholm » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 14:44

Good call and I will definitely keep an eye on them.

When I converted, I had the brakes cleaned out, all pads and hoses replaced, and the engineer remarked how sturdy they were.
Both him and the blue-slip guy said they were overengineered for the vehicle (the van was originally built to carry 15cwt (750kg)) and the drum pads, evenly balanced as they were, ought to last many years.

I've just gone along on the principle that if the performance changes, (ie brakes don't pull up as well as they usually do) it'll be time to check/tweak, but that's a risk like the old frog in boiling water that eventually comes a cropper because the change is slow.

I figure if it passes pink slip, it'll stop me on city streets at the speed I drive. It's not exactly a performance vehicle, I'm usually 400-500kg under GVM, and my brake pedal has always kept the same play.

Anyway, definitely worthy of mention, so thanks.

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Post by CometBoy » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 15:29

The actual problem comes in because brake fluid (DOT3 anyway) is a hydroscopic fluids so it absorb moisture over time.

Moisture in brake fluid slowly rusts out the brake lines and the internals of the wheel cylinders etc. On older vehicles it is not uncommon to stainless steel line the master and wheel cylinders during the restoration process. This is generally considered the way to go if you plan to keep an older machine on the road and it’s not that expense. Moisture can also affect the boiling point of the brake fluid making it lower and thus takes away from the fluid's ability to compress. But the main reason for the changing every year or two is to help prevent pitting of the internals. If you wait till you notice a deterioration in braking performance that might be a bit late.... For our city runabout EV’s this would not be that noticeable anyway.

Checking the pH level of the brake fluid is straight forward (Acidity being the factor in corrosion....)

Sorry you most likely know all this!

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Post by gholm » Mon, 14 Oct 2013, 01:34

Actually, no, I had no idea it was hydroscopic. Interesting.
The brake lines are in excellent condition, but it can't hurt to be extra wary on the pH levels. external appearance has no bearing on the internal pitting etc. Good to now be in the know.

And this, people, is why I love this forum... soo much info from some very knowledgeable people. Thanks Cometboy

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Post by EV2Go » Mon, 14 Oct 2013, 01:55

Think you will find the reason why people (including myself) refurbish master cylinders with a stainless sleeve, is less to do with the brake fluid being hydroscopic, and more to do with the porosity / bad wear characteristics of older inferior cast parts.

Mini's for example are notorious for wear, and was why I put a stainless sleeve in my master cylinder when the time come. I could have replaced it with a new unit, but opted for the longevity of stainless.

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Post by carnut1100 » Mon, 14 Oct 2013, 03:58

Also many old cars have part made from unobtainium....refurb or go home!

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Post by CometBoy » Mon, 14 Oct 2013, 13:30

Here is a bit more food for thought?

As an ex Canadian, the problems of moisture condensation in brake fluids (and even in petrol tanks) in the cool winters is a bigger problem. This is the result of using the vehicle in freezing conditions on the road and then parking in heated garages. As such, the Canadians into older vehicles get a lot more experience in brake cylinder issues.

The following cut and paste from an older US brake shop explains better than me and sums it up quite well. This guy is now retired but keeps the information up as a service for historical and educational purposes only.

"Why do you use brass? Why not stainless steel?

The proper grades of stainless steel are fine for sleeves *if* they are installed properly. For metallurgical reasons, they must be put in with a quite tight interference fit. This fit works fine on massive disc callipers, but can break relatively thin-walled master and wheel cylinders. Much of the work we do is on cylinders that are difficult if not impossible to replace, so we can't take a chance on breaking them. We can use different assembly techniques with brass that do not risk breaking the casting.

We often re-sleeve cylinders that have had stainless sleeves installed improperly. The typical failure mode for these cylinders is that the bond between the sleeve and the casting fails, allowing the sleeve to push out of the cylinder when pressure is applied. See a set of Dunlop calliper pods with three out of four failed sleeves. The fourth sleeve was close to failure.
It's important to note that these systems do not fail from wear but rather from pitting caused by rust or corrosion. Brake parts move so slowly and so seldom, relatively speaking, and are so well lubricated that wear just isn't a factor. Even soft, non-anodized aluminium cylinders (that haven't been honed) show very little to no wear if we can find enough uncorroded surface to get a measurement. If we can prevent the pitting, we prevent the failure. The tempered brass we use is much harder than cast aluminium and not much softer than cast iron. The additional hardness of SS is just not an advantage in brake cylinders. In addition, brass is by nature a bearing material. SS is not."

Reference:http://www.brakecylinder.com/BrakeFAQ.htm

I think the choice between SS or brass really depending on the degree of damage to the original parts and how rare they are to replace.

Cheers
Bruce

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Post by Johny » Mon, 14 Oct 2013, 14:59

I just has the Vogue's Master cylinder re-sleeved in stainless. The mob I went to was recommended to me by a veteran car nut so hopefully it's good work. I hadn't heard of brass re-sleeving before. Thanks for the links CometBoy.

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Post by EV2Go » Mon, 14 Oct 2013, 17:49

Not heard of them using brass before either, but I do disagree with their point of not wearing. When I pulled the Mini master cylinder apart, it had a sizable lip at the end of the plunger travel.

Since it worked so well on my Mini I have sleeved a few times since over buying new units.

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Post by seligtype3 » Fri, 24 Jan 2014, 04:38

Hey there, a quick one regarding your X-pert pro setup. I've been fiddling with mine today and only just realised that with the 1:10 prescaler it links the car's 12V ground with the HV negative. Have you found a solution to this or are you only monitoring a few cells? In which case doesn't that cause problems with cell imbalance?
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Post by gholm » Fri, 24 Jan 2014, 15:41

Hey Seligtype3
My dim memory of that install had me searching for the very same answers at the time. The docs are wrong.

Here's where it was discussed
">viewtopic.php?title=gholms-morris-j2-va ... 224#p34026

so, no, don't connect your HV lines to your 12v at all, don't share a common ground, don't put any cords between the two, unless it's through a safe and reliable DC-DC convertor.

Let me dig out my circuit diags so I can refresh my memory exactly where I connected it... sorry.. haven't even touched or laid eyes on any of that work for 2 years so I can't remember off hand.

Mind you, my eXpert Pro isn't wired to detect charging, because I didn't want to bring any of my charging circuit up to the front control box. This means I have to manually reset it each time I know the van is fully charged.

Just keep this in mind when you see my circuit diag as this might not suit your needs.
Last edited by gholm on Fri, 24 Jan 2014, 04:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by gholm » Fri, 12 Sep 2014, 19:26

Without anywhere else to gloat, I thought I'd come here and preach to the converted instead.

I just had my annual pink slip inspection and "service".

$37 for the piece of pink paper.
$30 for a flush of brake fluid, and a grease gun into every nipple.
Thats it. Total $67

And yet some people still wonder why I went to the bother of converting ....

ha, now for greenslip, rego and insurance :/

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Post by Adverse Effects » Fri, 12 Sep 2014, 19:59

LOL love it

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Post by Johny » Fri, 12 Sep 2014, 20:20

Nice one James. We don't have to do that down here yet (Vic) Image.

My yearly service consisted of pumping up my tyres. I had let them all get down to 24 PSI so now they are all back up to 32 PSI. (Enfren Silicone so don't need to go higher). My economy appears to have immediately improved.

My excuse is that no one else services the car and I just don't go into petrol stations with it so it's not convenient to check.
Guess I'd better do a brake fluid flush soon too.

The service cost of running an EV definitely need to be included in the arguable running costs don't they.

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Post by gholm » Fri, 12 Sep 2014, 21:18

Johny wrote:The service cost of running an EV definitely need to be included in the arguable running costs don't they.


Definitely. People just don't realise that a bit of pain ($) up front can save soo much more hassle and $$ pain later on.

The hassle of leaving a car for a few days for service, The hassle of fuel station queues & price variations.
The hassle (and pain) of service centres overselling "disposable" components that don't actually need replacement.

In the last year, all else I've done to the entire drivetrain is replace a dodgy microswitch on the throttlebox with a good-quality IP67 rated one.
$20 from Farnell and 5 mins of my time.

So really it's under $100 for a whole year service.

I challenge even a brand-new car to get out of a yearly service with a bill that small.

Lovin' it.


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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 13 Sep 2014, 01:09

gholm wrote:So really it's under $100 for a whole year service.

I challenge even a brand-new car to get out of a yearly service with a bill that small.

Lovin' it.


Image mate it costs me more than that to fill the petrol tank on my ute once (87Lt @ around $1.50/Lt) $130.50

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Post by AMPrentice » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 22:20

how much is reg for the beast any discounts for EVs these days of ever increasing Gov revenues?
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Post by gholm » Thu, 02 Oct 2014, 17:31

Nah, no discount for EVs in NSW for rego, greenslip or insurance.... (none I'm aware of anyway)

No biggie.. us EVers get the discount from lack of fuel excise.

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Post by gholm » Tue, 29 Sep 2015, 17:59

Hi all
Been a solid year for me but interestingly uneventful in regards to the van with zero crucial maintenance and only minor tweaks.

Things I've done/learned/have happened.

1) The van's 12v (non-traction) electric system will start and run on 6v ... actually 5.9v to be exact. I know this because the Lead-Acid died a slow death over a few months and although I carried a spare, I just wanted to see how low it could go before breaking the contactors ... it seems they both (packside and FWD/REV) stay on happily until 5.9v.

2) The van 12v system draws 700ma (w/ 2 contactors on). Both blinkers & brake lights another 400ma. Headlights take 11 amps, but I safely drive the well-lit streets of Sydney with just the super-bright LED parking lights which draw 2 amps. Wipers are 3 amps.   
With my new 40Aha 12v LiPo from Ev-Power (thanks Rod!) I have plenty of safety capacity if ever stuck roadside in the rain at night on a dark street. .... (don't jinx me OK?)

3) I decided (for once) to act strategically and had all the brake cylinders re-lined in stainless steel ... I now don't even need the vacuum assist as I can easily lock up all wheels with minimal effort manually .. light-commercial drum brakes are just amazing with good cylinders and linings.

4) Lanox brand lanolin grease and MX5 liquid are god's gift to old cars.
I covered the underside and filled all the double skin panels with MX5 and haven't seen even one rust spot appear over the last year. Usually would find a few, but not now! Am living by the sea as well.

The exterior, I clean monthly or so with detergent then buff/polish with Lanolin grease to a shine ... stays a bit sticky for a day or so but with such a beautiful lustre, there's not been a single rust spot exterior either .. plus the water beads like it's concourse.
HIGHLY recommend.

5) This year I've had exactly 4 flat tyres from woodscrews at the same location outside a residential construction site. And yes, 1 flat at each coner of the van.. so thankyou lazy builder-twat!!. Leaving your damn screws strewn across a public road DOES cause people grief so please for the love of dog, refrain.

Oh but I have discovered my rims are actually tubeless-friendly so I'm all tubeless now, and have also discovered why the tyres are so "cheese-cutter" thin ... otherwise they won't fit between the hub and chassis when getting them on/off.

6) The EV grin has not faded one iota.

7) This year I've been seeing so many more Teslas (one is a Uber car!), Leafs and even a Volt... and there's a great little Honda Insight parked up my street. So good to see EVs/Hybrids coming online so fast.

All good else wise so until next time, all the very best.
cheers


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