My TZR 250 EV project

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
Nevilleh
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Post by Nevilleh » Thu, 06 May 2010, 19:48

Just in passing, I had an electric bike (just sold it last month) that had 20 x 60 AHr Thunder Sky cells. It had a top speed of just on 100 kph and would do around 100 kms (80% DOD) on a charge, running around town. At full throttle on the freeway it would do about 75 kms. It weighed a bit over 120 kg. That may help to estimate what to expect from various battery sizes.

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Post by GRMarks » Fri, 07 May 2010, 01:42

vh202

I commute 60 km daily and sometimes visit other companies during the day. I aslo divert to the AEVA meetings on my way home.
My goal was 120 km range at freeway speed.
If you check out the comment from Mark (from EnerTrac) with the pic of a customers bike from the US he got (at least) 70 km with 64ah LiPo.

I would use Sky Energy (CALB) LiFePo4 60ah as I think that will give you your 60km. When I get mine finished I will know how far I can go and at what speed and can certanly give you concreet advice then. At the moment I am just guessing.

I have settled on Sky Energy 100ah as I know they will fit in the bike (now) but the weight is a problem because my bike is only 150kg (or 141kg) depending on whos specs you believe. I'll take the heavier one as the battery pack is 111.6 kg and the bare frame if 50kg which puts me over weight already. I will be moving 8 batteries to the back of the bike to fix this problem (i.e. front axle weight).
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Glenn Marks

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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 10 May 2010, 01:09

PaulWay wrote:I'd watch out with using clamps to hold the torque arm to the swing arm. With the amount of torque the motor can generate, I'd imagine it will be able to start slamming that arm against those bolts only a couple of runs after you've fitted it. Would it be a better idea to bolt the torque arm directly to the swing arm by a hole (or holes) drilled through both?Paul
Well at first I thought drilling holes in the swing arm was a bad idea but when the enginee also said it as an idea and explaned that the stress is along the edges (not in the middle) I have changed my mind.
heres some pics

Started with this to put inside the swing arm so it would not get crushed when I did up the bolts.
Image

Then when I tried to put it in I realised this.
Image
The dimples at the bends !

So then I made these other 2 (1/2 the hight of the original) so I could put one side in first, and while holding it in place, put the other 1/2 in.
Image

Here is the finished results (both arms of the swing arm done)
Image

Image

Getting the 2 halves in place was a bit of mucking around but not to bad.

I have settled on SE100AHA (Sky Energy/CALB) as they are a little bit lighter and smaller and deliver better power under load. But before I place my order for them (via EV Works) I am trying to sort out BMS and charger - I want the 2 to talk to each other so I need to buy them as a set.
I am keen to order the batteries as there is a 6-8 week lead time on them.

Last weekend I got a back brake hose made up and bought a hydrolic cluch leaver assembly for left hand operated rear brakes. I also made a brass fitting for a pressure sensor (on order) to work the regen braking. When I apply small pressure to the rear brake lever the regen starts to work and increases with more pressure. 0-5V input to the controller from the pressure senser. Also a second pressure sensor for the brake lights (its built into the banjo bolt that attaches the brake line to the brass fitting). I include pics when its all set up.


Last edited by GRMarks on Sun, 09 May 2010, 15:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Glenn Marks

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procrastination inc
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Post by procrastination inc » Mon, 10 May 2010, 01:33

Nice looking project.

How much discussion do the BMS and charger need to have?

If the charger can be set to deliver CC until the bat voltage hits a set limit and then CV until it drops to a minimum current, then all it needs to know from the BMS is if any one cell gets over max voltage.

Well, that's what I get from all the discussions I've read anyway...

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Post by PaulWay » Fri, 18 Jun 2010, 00:03

Hi Glenn,

I've mostly finished putting together a mock-up control box - it has two knobs for throttle and brake (with an integrated switch - thanks Futurlec!), two switches, two LEDs, and a bunch of connectors. The idea is that I can attach the Kelly controller and the motor (on a stand) and demonstrate it working before I wire it together permanently. It also gives me a good place to start to understand exactly what I'm going to have to provide on the bike.

Re BMS, EVWorks has their own system that is fairly inexpensive, works on individual cells and allows you to control as many cells as you want via a one-wire system. There's a page - http://liionbms.com/php/bms_options.php - that compares most of the options include the EVWorks system. They aren't on the graph but the EVWorks works out to be quite cheap - they don't have a lot of extra features but they do the job well.

Keep up the great work!

Paul

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Post by GRMarks » Thu, 15 Jul 2010, 03:23

Well, its been a while since I last made an entry.
I have purchased the BMS from EVworks (www.evworks.com.au) along with an Expert Pro gauge, cableing, cable lugs, terminal grease, fuse, emergency disconect switch (big red button) and SE batteries.
I got an Elcon charger from the Chinese manufacturer (very easy to deal with). If anyone is interested here is the email address I used (export2@hztiecheng.com) and conversed with Nancy.

The charger arrived today (Wednesday) - they only shipped it on 11:59 pm (midnight) Monday night. I got the email last night when I got home from work and this morning the trcking showed it was "out for delivery" today. Wow was that fast especialy when you think it had to come from China.

Nancy seems to be there 24hrs a day as I get responses to emails at night within 1/2 hr of sending.

By the way the charger had the charge curve set to my needs at the factory ie 36 X 100ah at 3.65 Volts per cell (about) 132 Volts.

My pressure sensor for the regen braking has also arrived (took about 2 months from England). They should take a leaf out of the chinese book when it comes to delivering !
Although having said that the SE100ah batteries have been about 2 months and still waiting. Here soon I hope.

The weight issue is solved (mostly) - I am moving 8 cells to the back of the bike. As originaly planned there will be 1 at the back of the box and 1 under the seat as well. That 10 cells (30 kg) moved to the back. That gives only 4 cells in the "outrigger" batter boxes on each side (at the front).

As for the back I am going to cut the rear frame off and make a battery box like a saddle bag (or upside down "U") this way the batteries will not extend past the original frame width keeping a reasonable sporty look to it. 4 cells will have to go on there sides, 2 on each side of the wheel, (there are mixed opinions about this). All the fine details are yet to be worked out.

Although I havn't posted much I have been cutting and folding aluminium to make the battery boxes out of. Its been slow going trying to make a 3D shape in a 3D hole out of flat pannels. I hope to get it welded up in a few weeks time.

I am in the middle of making a simple folder to fold the aluminium (of course) so this has (and will) take a few weeks but the neat folds will be worth the efort.

I have managed to gain an extra 20 - 30 mm clearance off the font wheel to the front battery box by arranging the batties in a non uniform way (and by using the SE (CALB) rather than TS cells).

My motor is going to receive a cooling upgrade by getting vented side covers. It has been discovered that the bigger bikes tend to heat the magnets up a bit too much so vented side covers is the solution. Mark from EnerTrac is sending them soon. I could have opted to send the whole motor back and got a new one with vented covers but it seems silly with the freight charges so hi so I opted for replacing the side covers with vented ones. It should be easy enough. He's footing the bill so I am saving him money. So if you plan on ordering a motor ask for the vented covers.

I will post some more pics when the battery box is welded.

Regards

Glenn Marks

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Post by Thalass » Sun, 18 Jul 2010, 17:34

Sounds good! I'd like to see photos of your battery boxes. There's a Ninja on the elmoto forums with a 72v 60ah pack, and he claims he'll be able to get up towards 100km out of it. But 100ah cells would be good, i think, for that extra buffer in real world conditions. (My estimates on a spreadsheet say I ought to get 90ish km out of 100ah cells - but my wh/km estimate may still be too high)

So it'd be interesting to see how you jam all those cells in! haha
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.

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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 19 Jul 2010, 05:16

Thalass wrote:(My estimates on a spreadsheet say I ought to get 90ish km out of 100ah cells - but my wh/km estimate may still be too high)

So it'd be interesting to see how you jam all those cells in! haha


did you mean 60ah (not 100ah) because the EnerTrac motor seems to be giving about 100km (120km /64ah at 115V) range to a 60ah battery pack. I'm hoping for around 160km range at 80kmh.
Last edited by GRMarks on Sun, 18 Jul 2010, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Glenn Marks

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Post by GRMarks » Sat, 18 Sep 2010, 02:01

Well finally I have got the front battery box welded up and in the frame (only 5 1/2 hrs. of welding!). Thats 26 batteries done, 10 to go. Here are some pics.

Image
The back frame will be cut off and a battery box added in its place. The frame is cut on the top rails (so I could weld the front box in) but not on the bottom ones so I still can see and measure where things go.

Image

Image

A view from the back
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From the top looking inside
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clearance when at full suspension compression
Image

Image

Obviously over the past months I have been measureing and cutting aluminium plate in various shapes to make this box. It was way too hard to try and explain which bit went where and why. Much easier to build it and show the result.

Over all the welding went realy well. Some warpage when welding the side boxes to the main one but this can be fixed by cutting and rewelding some welds. I guess I will know just how well it went when I get my batteries and try fitting them in. Its been 4 months and still waiting. Hopefully here in the next couple of weeks.
Regards

Glenn Marks

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Post by EV2Go » Sat, 18 Sep 2010, 05:32

Hard to tell without a good look up close, but from a distance it looks really good, keep up the good work.

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Post by AussieJester » Sun, 19 Sep 2010, 20:57

Nice job on the construction...Mate had the same bike back in the 80s i had a Suzuki RGV250 myself :-)

KiM
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Post by GRMarks » Fri, 24 Dec 2010, 04:11

its been a while since my last post (been busy with family matters) but I have still managed to get some work done. Its been head down and bum up for the last month.
Being dissapointed with the welding done by the tradies, I purchased a TIG welder and have been welding anything I think I can to try and master it. The ability to weld things myself have realy spead things up.

here are a couple of pics of where I am up to. 10 batteries housed in the back battery box configuration (or will be soon).
Image

Image

and looking from the top (its a bit distorted but you get the idea)
Image
The small "boxes" in between the last 2 top battery places (on each side) is for cables to go down to the lower "panier" side boxes

when I sit on the bike, with my legs tucked in, the outside of my legs are still wider than the side panier boxes so once the fiberglas fairings are on it (hopfully) should look quite sleek.

I still have some welding to do - the runners for my feet on each side and there will be some lugs to be welded for the side fairing mounts. I take the motor out for the welding so there can be no mistakes - don't want to blow it up.
The front fairing frame will be bolted on to the bike, there are mounts there already, but the frame can be made on the bench.

In case you are wondering how I can blow up the motor when welding - this is what I discovered:-
when pushing the bike a while back I found it was realy hard to push, this pussled me as it has always been easy to push. What I discovered was that the 3 main wires to/from the motor were all touching the aluminium battery box (making a curcuit) and I had re-gen braking !

If this happend while welding I could end up with a blow motor or, at least, the position sensors. Best to paly safe.

If you have ever welded on a car with an alterator you have to disconect a battery cable to break the curcuit, then you can weld. If you don't the diodes in the alterator will get fried - I've seen it happen to some one else. I guess the same could happen to the car computer as well.

should have a few more posts soon as next week I have a week off work and things should happen a bit faster.
Regards

Glenn Marks

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 24 Dec 2010, 17:06

That's a lot of ally! Top quality welding, I gotta say!
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 28 Dec 2010, 21:49

I know it is way too late in the ball game to be doing this, but wouldn't it have been a whole lot easier to chop the main stays out and use the battery box as the structual member?

Being that you don't have an ICE motor trying to torque from left to right, the main chassis could have been the boxing itself. You have the motor mounted in the rear wheel, so it is only going to torque forward.

Just figuring you could have gotten the 10 batteries at the rear in the motor area if you weren't trying to fabricate around the main stays.

Image

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Post by AussieJester » Tue, 28 Dec 2010, 22:27

In a perfect weld maybe so, seeing this is alumnium and on a motorcycle that will be traveling at speed, re-welding on alloy i.e main stays that has likely been heat treated would be a concern to some... ?

Nice work though as is mate, I eagerly await the next update on the bike.

KiM

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Post by GRMarks » Tue, 28 Dec 2010, 23:07

EV2Go wrote: I know it is way too late in the ball game to be doing this, but wouldn't it have been a whole lot easier to chop the main stays out and use the battery box as the structual member?
EV2Go you are dead right (thought about that many times) but this project is considerd a modification to the original bike there for I have only the ADR's to worry about when it was first registered (2 only).
If I did away with the main structure it world be an new (individuly constructed) vehicle and then would need to comply with all the current ADR's.

The main reason for the batteries at the back is weight - I needed to get weight of the front wheel.

To add to your idea - a swing arem is good for a chain drive bike but with a hub motor other (more radicle) suspension ideas could be used so that the batteries could go right up to the back wheel (no shok or swing arm in the way)

Regards

Glenn Marks

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Post by GRMarks » Tue, 11 Jan 2011, 03:11

some more pics

This one shows the running boards (no foot pegs)
Image
notice also the controller,big red emergency stop button (will be in storage compartment) and rear brake light (blinkers are to close togeather so I will need to add stand alone ones for ADR compliance (12 iches from center to center).

Here's a peek inside (the now very busy) "electrical" compartment - Big red button,fuse,contactor and DC - DC converter (in between the 2 batteries) its made up from 4 20W 36-75 V to 12V converer (more on it latter)
Image

here it is with the old seat and petrol tank. I'm going to make a fiberglass compartment from the tank.
Image

Because of the weight of the batteries I am forced to make it a single seater, so the BMS control unit will go here.
Image

Here is where the charger will go. It will be removable so I can choose to carry it or take it out for more "luggage" room
Image

Now to the DC-DC converter (for the very observant) I have cleaned up the wirering from the earlier shot. I have 2 wires into 1 hole and then 2 of these into 1 hole again giving 4 wires into one (the centre 2 holes are +ve and -ve 12.5 volts at 6.67 amps)
Image

As I said earier - its made up from 4 of these modules that take 36 to 75 volts input and give 12 volts output. The output voltage is variable via external transistors up to 10%. Mine is at 12.5 volts. I have 2 one ohm restors (to make 0.5 ohm) on the output positive wire of each module (as advised by an electrical engineer) so they will not "drop out". Two modules run in parallel from 1/2 of the battery pack and the other two from the remaining 1/2 (battery pack is 118.5 volts). And the output is all parallel to 12 volts. They cost about $12 each from US plus postage (which wasn't much). so for about $50 - $60 I have a dc - dc converter with 6.67 amps output. Contactor need 0.67 amp to hold and HID light (once warm) needs about 3 amps. The controller and LED blinkers don't need much (no ADRs to comply with in this area). The only other thing to drive is the horn (havn't tried that yet).   
The other advantage is its small and light and I did away with the 12 volt lead acid battery as well, saving more weight. Its always on so it will draw about 0.01 (X 4 modules = 0.04) amps per hour (about 1 amp a day) when idle, so with 100 amp batteries at 80% DOD, thats 80 days between charges when not used. If I were to go on a 3 month hoilday (like long service leave) I can just remove the fuses to disconnect it.
The input to the second pair of modules is the return for the first pair (goes to middle of batter pack) - needs 3 wires all togeather.
It seems to work just fine so far.
Image


Still plenty of work to do in fiber glass now and some cabels to clean up.
I had it running (on blocks with some aligator clips to complete the wiring) on Sunday afternoon 9/01/2011.
The throttle didn't come with a wiring diagram so at first attempt I had off and full thottle - no inbetween. changes 2 aligtor clips around and presto - full smooth controll (I wrote down the wiring config. for future use).
One thing that surprised me was the burning smell coming somewhere from the back of the bike!
turns out - at full throttle the tire grows taller and rubs (and smokes) on the cross member of the swing arm. simple fix - move wheel back a bit.
check out the clearance from this pic
Image
it grows that much - about 8 mm.



Regards

Glenn Marks

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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 04:25

Its been a few weeks since I last posted so here is what I've been working on.

The Tank was too small for the storage area I wanted so I filled in some of the cutout with body filler before taking a mold of it.
Image

Heres the mould - its a bit bright in the sun and hard to see
Image

Next is a reverse mould (mould is on the inside) I made of the storage compartment/ battery cover
Image


Here is the finished product (almost) note the modification on the front - it wouldn't go in when the controller was mounted so I removed and re glassed the font part
Image

from the sides
Image

Image

With the elcon (now TC chargers) charger in side. Had to modify some fins and cut of the side mounting brackets. The idea is I can carry it OR a laptop (laptop sanding upright).
Image

And finaly the back battery cover (while it is still wet)
Image

Image


I also had to extend the tail light further back and add a plate to secure the back of the font compartment to (under the wet fiberglass)

One thing I forgot to do was allow room for the batter cable from side to side near the back. Will modify it when it sets - no biggy.   
Regards

Glenn Marks

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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 04:28

I should mention - I have aluminium foil over a piece of 3 ply and down the sides so the fiber glass wont stick.
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Post by lithbattboss » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 15:43

Looks like your project is coming along nicely there. I can't see where you fit the 12V battery to run the auxiliary low voltage circuits? I assume you have a hidden battery compartment for this which can't be seen in the photos?
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Post by EV2Go » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 16:31

GRMarks wrote: I should mention - I have aluminium foil over a piece of 3 ply and down the sides so the fiber glass wont stick.
Handy tip to try and remember for when I get to body work.

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Post by T1 Terry » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 17:24

EV2Go wrote:
GRMarks wrote: I should mention - I have aluminium foil over a piece of 3 ply and down the sides so the fiber glass wont stick.
Handy tip to try and remember for when I get to body work.

I use gaffer tape and a coat of silicon spray, easier to work with, the fibreglass bit just pops off, hopefully Image sometimes a blow around the edges with an air nozzles helps too. Beeswax on a sheet of glass is another method of making up flat panel sections that can be cut to shape.

The bike project is coming on well, lots of very neat looking aluminium welds there, something I'm still trying to master. Looking forward to the next instalment.

T1 Terry
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 17:41

lithbattboss wrote: Looks like your project is coming along nicely there. I can't see where you fit the 12V battery to run the auxiliary low voltage circuits? I assume you have a hidden battery compartment for this which can't be seen in the photos?
I don't have one - scroll up and you will see the power supply I made from 4 small modules - this is the only 12V supply I have. For a 1987 ADR there is no requirement. Also if 1/2 the battery pack fails I still have 12 volts from my setup.
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 17:44

EV2Go wrote:
GRMarks wrote: I should mention - I have aluminium foil over a piece of 3 ply and down the sides so the fiber glass wont stick.
Handy tip to try and remember for when I get to body work.


I also used releasing agent on the aluminium foil so its easy to peel of. The whole thing lifts off easy then you peel of the foil. Only good for rough finishes.
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 17:49

T1 Terry wrote:
EV2Go wrote:
GRMarks wrote: I should mention - I have aluminium foil over a piece of 3 ply and down the sides so the fiber glass wont stick.
Handy tip to try and remember for when I get to body work.

I use gaffer tape and a coat of silicon spray, easier to work with, the fibreglass bit just pops off, hopefully Image sometimes a blow around the edges with an air nozzles helps too. Beeswax on a sheet of glass is another method of making up flat panel sections that can be cut to shape.

The bike project is coming on well, lots of very neat looking aluminium welds there, something I'm still trying to master. Looking forward to the next instalment.

T1 Terry


I use aluminium sheet for making flat fiber glass sheets but I have used chip board and ply wood in the past with mould max applied several times.
In fact up until this time I have only ever use some form of wax (floor wax works) but this time I used mould wax and releasing agent.
I'll have to try the silicon spray out. What brand etc. ?
Regards

Glenn Marks

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