Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Thu, 31 Jan 2019, 19:11

I have been making some changes to the way I am going to attach the motors to the diffs. Originally I was going to use a rigid coupler and mount the motor to the diff but it did not really feel right. Luckily I found some CV joints for tail shafts for commodores. They are only $50 and they are about the same width as the hard coupler I was going to use.
This means the motor will need to be attached to the chassis some other way. Thinking about my options I decided to try to attach the motors to the battery box. I will add some reinforcement to the area where the motors go so it can transfer the torque to the chassis.
Also I have to move the front diff to the center. I found that getting a new diff was easier than trying to modify the original diff's ends.
Here are some pictures.
These two pictures show the CV joint on a test shaft. (I was checking that I could make the male splines)
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Here is me playing with my new abilities to make external splines.
The coupler on the right is what I was going to use originally.
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Here are different views of the front motor and diff.
Attachments
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Thu, 31 Jan 2019, 19:13

The engine bay looks so empty.
IMG-20190131-WA0007.jpeg
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I will need to think of something to put in that empty space. Maybe a fridge to keep drinks cool and to keep the ice cream from melting on the way back from the shops. :lol:

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by dmenheere » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 01:29

Hi Francisco,

Amazing work! Looking forward to see how this turns out. I have a Montero on the other side of the world ... Canada.

For joining the motors to the diffs did you consider a rubber giubo? also are you using the rear differential for the front? could you have not used the rear half shafts and swapped the outer cv's?

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions ... seems like the only ones I ask :-)

cheers,

Dave

francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 10:52

The diff is the rear diff out of a Nissan skyline. I did think about using the rear diff at the front but the half shafts are different and will not fit in the front hubs and the front half shafts do not fit the rear diff without doing what I did. Also I have been told that the rear cvjoints do not have the same angle capabilities as the front ones because they do not need to steer.
I did think about the rubber coupler but the cvjoint is smaller and a much nicer solution.
Would you be interested in doing your motero?

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by dmenheere » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 20:31

Hi Francisco, thanks for the explanation! Again, very nice work!

I would be interested in converting a Montero but may pick up another one since they are fairly cheap and try copying what you are doing. Unfortunately, I don't have your skills so it may not be as pretty :-) or go as quickly as your conversion seems to be going! I think the Pajero/Montero is a great platform for conversion with the independent suspension and no frame leaving lots of room for batteries ... and I like the high seating position.

Looking forward to more updates.

Dave

francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 02 Feb 2019, 03:32

After I am finished I will be able to make a set of everything pretty quickly. I have drawings and 3D models for everything I make.
So I could make you a kit with everything assembled put it on a pallet and ship it to you.
The only thing you would have to do is remove the engine and transmission and bolt the kit on. Probably would take you longer to get the old stuff out and cut all the old brackets than it will take to install the conversion kit.
At this moment I am going to have the motors attached to the battery box so as a conversion kit there will be just one item to install. Bolt the battery box to the frame and the cv joints to the diffs plug the wiring harness and you are pretty much done. That is the idea anyway. Will see how it goes.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by dmenheere » Sun, 03 Feb 2019, 20:55

I would be interested!

Dave

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by T1 Terry » Mon, 11 Feb 2019, 21:01

You will need to add something for shock loading, otherwise the CV joints and the crown wheel and pinion won't last very long. In the old days the hollow tailshaft served this purpose, then rubber couplings, fluid coupling with temperature sensitive viscous fluids and spring loaded ramp type dog clutches and other various ideas were used. The easiest is probably the rubber insert drive coupling used as virtually the standard for industrial motor to drive coupling. Commonly available with a multitude of different materials for the cushioning centre section. My preferred method would be a viscous fluid coupling, nothing to wear out and really smooths out the backlash.

Love you idea for centring the diff assembly, I have a big bus converted to a motorhome that I want to centre the diff assembly in as I have converted it to rear engine and the original offset is making the engine/transmission line up near impossible.
My latest thoughts are rolling the diff centre back to forward drive, centring the diff assembly and electric drive with possibly a small capacity engine ahead of it as a load assist hybrid arrangement.
If I go ahead with the idea I may well be in touch to get some of the machining done.

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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Tue, 12 Feb 2019, 15:48

The motor will have some rubber mounts. The inertia of the motor is quite low so I am not sure that it will need much in the way of shock loading prevention. Most of the springs in the clutch and rubber couplers are to get rid of the torque pulses from the ICE.
Single cylinder motorbikes have much bigger cushioning than 4 cylinder ones.
The electric motor has no torque spikes to isolate.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by T1 Terry » Tue, 12 Feb 2019, 22:26

More the chatter in the drive train from the wheels feeding back into the motor, but up to you, just thought I'd share that with you just in case you had not considered it.

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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Tue, 19 Mar 2019, 20:37

I have been a bit busy working on the battery case. The battery case is proving to be a bit slower than I was expecting. The main reason is the time it takes to get parts laser cut then folded then I have to assemble and check that everything is right. Because I do not have an accurate 3D model of the bottom of the car I need to do a bit of trail and error to get my model right.
I made half then I assembled it and tried to make it fit then found the parts that were wrong and adjusted the model to match the modifications I did to the parts I made. Then I made the other half to match the modified parts and try again.
The current box is not going to be the final box. It is mostly for me to get the model correct. Once I have everything fitting I will remake the whole box again which should all be nice and neat.
I have also been having trouble working out how to hold the motors to the chassis. It occurred to me that if I attach the motors to the battery box then I can have everything in the one assembly.
Here are some pictures of what I have got so far.
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Side view of battery box with front motor mounted.
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Front view of battery box.
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Views from under the car.

francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Tue, 19 Mar 2019, 20:44

20190319_132308.jpg
View thru transmission tunnel
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View from engine bay
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Here is a picture of the CAD model.
Battery Box Model.JPG
Cad Model of Battery pack
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Battery Box Model with Motors.JPG
Cad Model of Battery Box with Motors
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The contactors fuses and precharge contactor and resistor will be inside the battery pack so if the 12v power is cut to the battery pack it should isolate the battery completely.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by jonescg » Wed, 20 Mar 2019, 14:36

I'm impressed it all fits! What are you using for a floor on the battery module? 5 mm aluminium sheet?

Edit - pictures finally loaded - looks like steel :)
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Wed, 20 Mar 2019, 14:51

1.2mm steel. I was thinking of using steel and then powder coating it but I think the cost of the powder coating will be more than the extra cost of using stainless steel. I am not sure if it would be a good idea to make it out of aluminium. The total weight of the box in steel is only about 40kg so I am not sure if it is worth trying to use aluminium.
The battery box doesn't have to be thick at all. It is just a bag to stop water and rubbish getting into the cells. The battery packs are strong enough not to need any extra support from the case.
I will put a bash plate under the battery for off road. But that will be separate from the battery case.
As for the fitting it has been a bit of a job measuring everything and getting the CAD model right. I have had to adjust some of the dimensions but I am confident then next one will be perfect. I am hoping for it to look like it came out of the Mitsubishi factory.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by brunohill » Wed, 20 Mar 2019, 21:05

Mate... This ones going to end up better than those Jaguar kits. It will even have room for a big beer fridge in the front.

francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Wed, 20 Mar 2019, 21:25

That is on the list. Seriously. I am thinking of using the air con to chill water and then run the water to whatever needs cooling. So running a beer fridge on the front is easy.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Fri, 12 Apr 2019, 18:47

I have been a little busy so there has not been much progress lately.
I have got the battery box almost finished. Unfortunately this is the prototype so I can find out everything wrong.
The mounting brackets for the motor are in and welded to the box. I still need to finish welding the braces that hold the box to the chassis.
I am going to bring the battery box with the motors and maybe one battery module installed to the next meeting for anyone who wants to see it in person.
Here are some pictures.
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I still have a little bit more welding to do. Then I will put the motors in and will put some more pictures.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Wed, 17 Apr 2019, 08:53

Here are more pictures of the battery box with the motors mounted and with some of the braces installed.
There are still about 5 more braces to go underneath.
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Rear motor with CV joint coupled to the rear diff
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Rear motor with CV joint coupled to the rear diff from further away.
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The front of the battery has braces attaching to the front suspension cross member.
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Front motor with braces.
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View from engine bay.
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20190416_220932.jpg
View from the front.
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Wed, 17 Apr 2019, 10:11

Here are some more pictures.
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View from the back
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On trailer going to AEVA meeting tonight.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by jonescg » Wed, 17 Apr 2019, 15:11

Another epic conversion build :) Well done.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by blwnhr » Thu, 18 Apr 2019, 08:35

Regarding the spacers between the front diff and drive shafts, I wonder what an engineer will say about that? Wheel spacers are illegal for on-road vehicles due to the additional load on the wheel studs. I can imagine a similar "longer lever" issue with this diff arrangement.

Certainly a wheel departing is far more catastrophic than a drive shaft, but they do significant damage very quickly when they thrash around after breaking, especially if it breaks at the diff and with the mass of a CV too.

It may also be more failure prone due to the high torque of the electric motor and the differential wheel speeds when turning.

Just a thought.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Thu, 18 Apr 2019, 11:21

The spacers on the half shafts are not the same as spacers on wheels. The spacers on wheels are a problem because the load is not centered on the bearings any more.
For the spacers on the half shafts it is different because there is no side loads on the half shafts. Just the weight of the CV joints. In the worse case I can extend the half shafts but that means making steel shafts with hardened splines on both ends. So I am trying to avoid having to make the splines.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Fri, 26 Apr 2019, 15:46

Still working on the battery box. I have finally finish adding all the braces.
Here are some pictures.
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Bottom view from the back showing all the braces
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Bottom view from the front showing all the braces
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The braces bolt onto the chassis of the car. I am trying to avoid welding anything to the original body. I am hoping this will be a bolt on retrofit with next to no modifications to the original body.
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View of how the braces attach to the chassis of the car
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The braces form part of the battery. The battery box is made out of two halves. The bottom half is a flat plate with brackets to hold the battery modules. The top half has the sides, cover, contactors and plugs.
Because the bottom sheet is so thin (1.2mm steel) the bottom braces are part of the bottom sheet so that it is strong enough that when the batteries are loaded it does not deform.
The battery box is just an enclosure to keep dirt and water out of the batteries. The structural part are the braces that hold the box to the body and the battery modules.
The long wise members are only there to keep everything in place when the battery is removed from the car.
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The battery box out of the car with the braces.
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The battery modules sit on guides that go on top of the braces. When the battery is installed the braces clamp the battery modules thru the guides against the floor pan of the car.
Here I am trying to see how I will assemble the modules. The main issue is the battery is made out of 3 modules the middle module weighs 70kg and the heaviest of the side modules weigh over 150kg and I have to install them onto the bottom plate as an assembled unit. So I need think how I am going to lower them into position. Because everything fits in so tightly the positioning accuracy when placing the modules on the bottom plate needs to be within a few mm.
20190426_172137.jpg
Starting to fit battery modules.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by jamie85063 » Fri, 26 Apr 2019, 22:22

Very nice work :-)

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by wovenrovings » Sun, 12 May 2019, 17:07

My suggestion would be to use the hoist to lower the car down onto the battery pack. That is similar to how tesla does it.

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