My TZR 250 EV project

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
GRMarks
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 18:01

T1 Terry wrote:The bike project is coming on well, lots of very neat looking aluminium welds there, something I'm still trying to master. Looking forward to the next instalment.

T1 Terry


The really good looking welds were done by a pro. The rough looking ones are mine !

I am getting better though.

I got frustrated with the slap dash method of the pro's welding (things out of square etc) so I shelled out for my own TIG ($2000) so I can take my time and try and get it right (some times it works and some times it doesn't).
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Post by lithbattboss » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 20:38

GRMarks wrote:
lithbattboss wrote: Looks like your project is coming along nicely there. I can't see where you fit the 12V battery to run the auxiliary low voltage circuits? I assume you have a hidden battery compartment for this which can't be seen in the photos?
I don't have one - scroll up and you will see the power supply I made from 4 small modules - this is the only 12V supply I have. For a 1987 ADR there is no requirement. Also if 1/2 the battery pack fails I still have 12 volts from my setup.


The ADR's apply to the mechanical structure and safety of the vehicle but the electric conversion side should conform to the requirements in Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14 (NCOP 14).
The current updated version was released only about a month ago.
You will see in section 2.12.1 that a separate 12V battery is mandatory. It would be a shame to complete your bike and when it gets inspected it gets knocked back from registration because you don't have the required 12V auxiliary battery. The latest version of VSB 14 is in the link below so you can check the current requirements for yourself.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... an2011.pdf
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Post by lithbattboss » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 20:42

From the way I read section 2.12.1 you can use your little DC converter modules to charge a separate 12V battery which is supplied power from the traction pack.
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 22:14

lithbattboss wrote:The ADR's apply to the mechanical structure and safety of the vehicle but the electric conversion side should conform to the requirements in Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14 (NCOP 14).
The current updated version was released only about a month ago.
You will see in section 2.12.1 that a separate 12V battery is mandatory. It would be a shame to complete your bike and when it gets inspected it gets knocked back from registration because you don't have the required 12V auxiliary battery. The latest version of VSB 14 is in the link below so you can check the current requirements for yourself.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... an2011.pdf
in the introductory to NCOP 14 under the scope section it states that this NCOP only applies to category LV1 (light vehicles) it does not apply to motor bikes (and others).
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 22:33

lithbattboss wrote: You will see in section 2.12.1 that a separate 12V battery is mandatory.


2.12.1 Auxiliary ELV
An independent auxiliary ELV (nominally 12V) must be used to guarantee the supply of power to
safety equipment such as lights, brake boosters and windscreen wipers in the event of a
shutdown of the main battery system in the vehicle. (Typically this power supply is a 12V
battery).

My little converter is 4 times fail safe working off 2 independent 1/2's of the traction battery pack. If both 1/2's fail at the same time then so could a stand alone 12V battery !
Also the 12V converter doesn't need much current to drive an LED tail light (the only emergency light on the bike).

The word "Typically" does not equal "mandatory". Its worth checking if a 2 times fails safe would negate the need of an auxiliary 12V battery though (if building/converting a car).

Thanks for the heads up though as things change its nice to have it pointed out.

When looking for guide lines for motor bikes theres not much out there.
Last edited by GRMarks on Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 11:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EV2Go » Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 23:02

How about spliting some hairs???

2.12.1 Auxiliary ELV
An independent auxiliary ELV (nominally 12V) must be used to guarantee the supply of power to safety equipment such as lights, brake boosters and windscreen wipers in the event of a shutdown of the main battery system in the vehicle. (Typically this power supply is a 12V battery).

Keep the main pack with its pack isolation, and tap your 12v system off before the isolation switch, so even if you need to shut down the main pack you still have 12v available.

Edit: Maybe throw in some isolation on the 12v system to be ultra safe.
Last edited by EV2Go on Mon, 14 Feb 2011, 12:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by GRMarks » Tue, 15 Feb 2011, 01:16

EV2Go wrote:Keep the main pack with its pack isolation, and tap your 12v system off before the isolation switch, so even if you need to shut down the main pack you still have 12v available.

Edit: Maybe throw in some isolation on the 12v system to be ultra safe.


The power to the dc-dc converter is always on. The only (planned) way to shut it off is to pull the fuses (2 of them)

The 12 V power must be there when the key is turned to throw the contacter.

The little modules come with the ability to just join 2 pins and it turns on but I'm not using that option. It would need 2 dedicated pins on the key switch but none are available.
Infact the current between the 2 pins (once joined) is enough to dive a transitor to turn on another module and this can can turn on another etc. OFF is when the voltage is below a certain value and ON is when its above.
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Post by GRMarks » Tue, 15 Feb 2011, 01:24

EV2Go how did you go with NCOPS and ADR's with your trike.
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 15 Feb 2011, 03:06

I haven't tackled too much yet that requires ADRs or NCOP compliance, other than the brakes and the front fender, um I mean front guard.

What I did was go to the website and find what catagory my trike fit under in this document "Third Edition ADRs – Applicability Summary Two and Three Wheeled vehicles"

The configuration I am using makes it a LEM. In the document it tells you which ADRs you need to comply with for each iteration.

For the electrical side I was planning on conforming to NCOP14 as it seems to be the standard which everyone is going off, unless they tell me otherwise.

I don't have it with me here in Sydney but I also downloaded a document that steps you through how to comply to the ADRs, like a cheat sheet of how they might want to test it. i.e COG tests, braking tests etc.


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Post by Thalass » Mon, 21 Feb 2011, 19:29

If all else fails, you might be able to squeeze a little model aircraft style lipo pack in with the dc-dc converter. It might be enough to get you past the paperwork monsters.
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Post by OSM » Fri, 18 Mar 2011, 01:46

Hi Glenn,

I'm about to start on my own electric bike project. Have you got in contact with a VASS certification engineer? If so can you recommend one?

Cheers
Owen

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Post by GRMarks » Sat, 19 Mar 2011, 03:01

OSM wrote: Hi Glenn,

I'm about to start on my own electric bike project. Have you got in contact with a VASS certification engineer? If so can you recommend one?

Cheers
Owen


yep no problems.

his name is Rowan Carter
his company name is CARTECH

mobile 0419 313 113
e-mail info@cartech.com.au

he is not "over the top" but reasonable and prepared to be flexable.

he is based in Hawthorn/Camberwell near Camberwell junction in Melbourne.

what bike are you converting or are you building from scratch ?
what motor an batteries ?
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Post by GRMarks » Sun, 30 Oct 2011, 05:21

Well its been a long time since I posted anything (lots of other stuff going on) so I thought I would update the progress.

OK my little DC/DC converter didn't work (the 2 operating from 1/2 up the pack only output 3V) so I have obtained and fitted/wired a new DC/DC converter (8 amp, 12.5 V mega junior) and it works just fine and is smaller than the 4 modules I put togeather.

I had fun wiring the horn (it took 3 weekends to work out the correct wiring) but I have it working now along with the head light, tail light, blinkers, stop light and the control pannel warning/indicator lights (hi/lo beam, blinkers, BMS warning and the controler warning lights. Infact they are LED's).
I also have a speedo,amp meter (connection from controller) and an expert pro gauge (which measuers all things from the battery pack)

I have started on the front mud gard (needs some repairs) and what was the fuel tank.

I took a mould of the fuel tank and modified it (roughly) then made a plug from the modified mould so I could finish the job properly. (its much easier to work on the out-side of a curved surface than the in-side.

I still need to sand it back for the final finish then I will make a new mould and then the real tank (which is now just a cover).

There is a storage compartment where the tank was so I will need to make a top door in it for access.

Haven't worked out the best way to do it yet.

Anyone with ideas ?     
Last edited by GRMarks on Sat, 29 Oct 2011, 18:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by OSM » Tue, 06 Dec 2011, 02:11

Hi Glenn,

Thanks. I contacted Rowan and he seems great. I am planning to build from scratch later on, however first up I am doing a conversion to iron out the bugs. I have a 1984 CBX750F which I am going to convert. I haven't selected batteries or motor yet. I am doing the calcs to work out what combination will provide the best realist, useable performance for the CBX. Still working on the mass/balance modelling and measurements to help with the selection so I can maintain the load distribution of the bike in its original configuration. I have also been working on the datalogger so I can measure and teak the bike's performance once I reach the testing stage.

Cheers
Owen

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Post by GRMarks » Sat, 25 Jan 2014, 21:17

It's been a long time since I posted a photo on my progress. Here is a picture of where I am at now.

Image

Last edited by GRMarks on Sat, 25 Jan 2014, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bluefang » Sun, 26 Jan 2014, 17:08

I registered a bike recently in Queensland under Ncop14 and i was told by both Queensland transport and vehicle standards that i needed to keep a battery for auxiliary purposes. As its mainly for time when you run our of juice where you 12V converters will be useless.
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Post by GRMarks » Tue, 28 Jan 2014, 04:02

Bluefang wrote: I registered a bike recently in Queensland under Ncop14 and i was told by both Queensland transport and vehicle standards that i needed to keep a battery for auxiliary purposes. As its mainly for time when you run our of juice where you 12V converters will be useless.
But ncop 14 states it does not apply to motor bikes (or it did last time I looked, which has been a while).

What would you want to run on 12 volts if your bike is out of juice?

But thanks for the heads up.
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Post by jateureka » Mon, 14 Sep 2015, 17:41

In answer to your question, I broke down on my 2011 Zero on a narrow bridge. This bike doesn't have an aux battery, so I had no Brake lights, hazard lights or headlight to warn traffic that I was incapacitated as I tried to get out of the way of traffic.

How did your build end up?
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Post by GRMarks » Mon, 14 Sep 2015, 20:25

The Zero has no auxiliary battery yet it complies with ADR rules here. It has a compliance plate and is registered.

So would seem it's not a must for bikes (as I suggested).

I see you are suggesting its a good idea regardless of rules, and thats something to consider.

About my build, I just bought a Zero SR 2015. My bike was never going to be in that class of performance, but at the time I started the build there was no electric bike to buy here that could do the range I needed.

I will probably take the batteries out and use on other things. As for the bike I will reduce battery capacity (and most importantly weight) and finish it for my wife to ride. Reduced weight will make it perform better. It will only need range for the local suburbs.

It was going to be too heavy to pass an engineers report, so this way I can easily fix that problem. But I think my initial battery sizing was correct for my needs, just that the cheap batteries are heavier than expensive ones. The Zero has more battery capacity in a much much smaller and lighter package than the Sky Energy ones I have.

Of course they are not called Sky Energy any more, and they don't make 100ah batteries in those dimensions any more either.

Last edited by GRMarks on Mon, 14 Sep 2015, 10:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Peteridern » Mon, 11 Sep 2017, 03:14

Cool project, I am like seeing it done from the beginning. Are you going to box the frame near the notch?

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