PIP-4048MS inverter

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 17 May 2018, 18:39

Revlac wrote:
Thu, 17 May 2018, 17:24
Had a similar experience.
I have used the PCM60X charge controllers for years now, as I use it along side the 5048HS And have had no problems with them on (custom settings) with the lithium battery bank.
Just a few times where I disconnected the solar panels late in the afternoon just before a storm and noticed it also stayed on for some time but not always, reconnected the panels and then sorted itself out if there was still some solar available.

On the FLA battery bank in the shed on default settings accept that I had the equalize setting enabled, That resulted in the charge controller staying on all night every night, it was trying to equalize the batteries. (There was full battery voltage at the solar inputs when the relay was on)
It maybe I set up the equalize setting incorrectly, I don't know but since I disabled the Equalize I have never had that happen again. (It never stayed on since.)
Hope that helps someone.

Cheers
Aaron
Thank you , i will try to disable Equalize , and see if the problem persist , i will answer back .

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 17 May 2018, 19:42

Revlac wrote:
Thu, 17 May 2018, 17:24
Had a similar experience.
I have used the PCM60X charge controllers for years now, as I use it along side the 5048HS And have had no problems with them on (custom settings) with the lithium battery bank.
Just a few times where I disconnected the solar panels late in the afternoon just before a storm and noticed it also stayed on for some time but not always, reconnected the panels and then sorted itself out if there was still some solar available.

On the FLA battery bank in the shed on default settings accept that I had the equalize setting enabled, That resulted in the charge controller staying on all night every night, it was trying to equalize the batteries. (There was full battery voltage at the solar inputs when the relay was on)
It maybe I set up the equalize setting incorrectly, I don't know but since I disabled the Equalize I have never had that happen again. (It never stayed on since.)
Hope that helps someone.

Cheers
Aaron
I have disabled the equalization , but the problem persists . Is like is some dc curent there , from another place .

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Fri, 18 May 2018, 04:31

And , this night , in bypass mode , i have a 1 amp battery draw .... so , is like somehow , the same thing is drawing this current it takes it to the pv input .

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Fri, 18 May 2018, 06:33

mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 17 May 2018, 14:23
And measured with a multimeter , even with the pv switch off , i have that 46v there ,
By "there", do you mean at the PV input terminals? Is it possible that this is leakage across your PV switch? For example, can you ever see this 46 V at night?
so , somehow is taking dc current from another place .
It must be taking *some* current to see the 46 V at the PV input, but even 5 microamps would be enough to register 46 V on a multimeter with a typical 10 MΩ input resistance. But I think that you're saying that the SCC relay coils (there are two in parallel) are turned on somehow. That would require of the order of a watt, which is some 20 mA at 50 V, and would require more than that (a few watts) to drive the SCC processor and associated electronics as well. But I can't imagine the current draw from the battery being near the 28 W that has been mentioned, just for the SCC electronics.
I have found another way to turn it off ( the panels ) is by setting the max charge to 0 [ amps ] and then back to desired amp . After it disconnect that relay , is ok , until is connected again, so is like is some dc voltage on the other side of the relay , or is like a circuit that closes with that relay . Do You have any ideas what can be ? Or if i can set the pv input voltage cutoff .... ?Thank you !
It sounds like what is happening is that somehow some of these SCCs are drawing power from the main battery even when the PV input is not present. They are designed to take their power (for the electronics) from the PV input only. However, I could imagine some errant path whereby the battery could supply power to the electronics, keeping the output relays on. The relays are between the SCC output and the main battery. That would cause a small drain from the main battery, which would go away when the SCC is told to turn off its relays; it sounds like setting the maximum charge current to zero amps does this.

Since the SCC stays off after forcing the relay off once, it suggests that the SCC isn't getting power from the PV input. But it's not certain, because relays require a lot more voltage (and hence power) to pull in than to hold their held-in position. If you have leakage across your PV switch, it might be enough power to hold the relays in, but not enough to pull them in once off.

You could prove that one way or the other by disconnecting one or both wires to the PV input; if there is no significant leakage across your PV switch, this should make no difference. Do this at the end of a day before forcing off the relays, of course.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Fri, 18 May 2018, 15:36

coulomb wrote:
Fri, 18 May 2018, 06:33
mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 17 May 2018, 14:23
And measured with a multimeter , even with the pv switch off , i have that 46v there ,
By "there", do you mean at the PV input terminals? Is it possible that this is leakage across your PV switch? For example, can you ever see this 46 V at night?
so , somehow is taking dc current from another place .
It must be taking *some* current to see the 46 V at the PV input, but even 5 microamps would be enough to register 46 V on a multimeter with a typical 10 MΩ input resistance. But I think that you're saying that the SCC relay coils (there are two in parallel) are turned on somehow. That would require of the order of a watt, which is some 20 mA at 50 V, and would require more than that (a few watts) to drive the SCC processor and associated electronics as well. But I can't imagine the current draw from the battery being near the 28 W that has been mentioned, just for the SCC electronics.
I have found another way to turn it off ( the panels ) is by setting the max charge to 0 [ amps ] and then back to desired amp . After it disconnect that relay , is ok , until is connected again, so is like is some dc voltage on the other side of the relay , or is like a circuit that closes with that relay . Do You have any ideas what can be ? Or if i can set the pv input voltage cutoff .... ?Thank you !
It sounds like what is happening is that somehow some of these SCCs are drawing power from the main battery even when the PV input is not present. They are designed to take their power (for the electronics) from the PV input only. However, I could imagine some errant path whereby the battery could supply power to the electronics, keeping the output relays on. The relays are between the SCC output and the main battery. That would cause a small drain from the main battery, which would go away when the SCC is told to turn off its relays; it sounds like setting the maximum charge current to zero amps does this.

Since the SCC stays off after forcing the relay off once, it suggests that the SCC isn't getting power from the PV input. But it's not certain, because relays require a lot more voltage (and hence power) to pull in than to hold their held-in position. If you have leakage across your PV switch, it might be enough power to hold the relays in, but not enough to pull them in once off.

You could prove that one way or the other by disconnecting one or both wires to the PV input; if there is no significant leakage across your PV switch, this should make no difference. Do this at the end of a day before forcing off the relays, of course.
Hi , and thank you again for all the help , I have disconnected the panels , but the problem remains , and in bypass mode and what i have observed is that i have 1 amp drain from batteries no matter what( reported by the inverter himself , i don`t have a amp clampeter yet )
...so , somehow , some power si going in the wrong way

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Fri, 18 May 2018, 17:10

mirceaalex001 wrote:
Fri, 18 May 2018, 15:36
Hi , and thank you again for all the help , I have disconnected the panels , but the problem remains,
Ok. So that seems to rule out leakage across your PV switch.
and in bypass mode and what i have observed is that i have 1 amp drain from batteries no matter what( reported by the inverter himself , i don`t have a amp clamp meter yet ) ...so , somehow , some power is going in the wrong way
When in bypass mode, the battery current reported depends on whether you are using factory firmware or patched. Even when not AC charging, so there is no significant loss from the inverter, but you are still running the LC display back-light, processor, relays, and all sorts of electronics. There are certainly versions of firmware that would report one amp of battery discharge in bypass mode. Recall that the battery current is a calculation, not a direct measurement, and can't be used to determine whether the inverter is drawing 20 W or 70 W under these conditions. DC clamp meters have their own issues, but can be made to be far more accurate than the reported battery current.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Fri, 18 May 2018, 19:24

Ok so i understand that -1a in bypass mode is not necessarily a problem , but the leakage is real , do you have any idea how can i stop this ? or, where to start ? Thank you ! ps i use the firmware ( 73.00c) , should i update ? and i have updated after the problem with the pv input , but no fix .

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Fri, 18 May 2018, 19:47

mirceaalex001 wrote:
Fri, 18 May 2018, 19:24
any idea how can i stop this ? or, where to start ?
If you have the ability to inject commands to the PIP, and since you are using patched firmware, I'd try this pair of commands:
MNCHGC0500<CRC><CR>
MNCHGC0499<CRC><CR>
This sets the dynamic charge current to zero, then sets it back to the EEPROM standard value and exits dynamic charge control mode. The advantage here is that you don't need to know what the EEPROM maximum charge current value is, it will use whatever has been set. It also won't reset the SCC, but at this time of day with no solar power available anyway, that doesn't matter. You can calculate the CRC characters once, then never have to change them. Perhaps you could insert an Arduino or similar between the PC and the PIP to do this at a fixed time of day. Or it could monitor packets to see when the solar power goes below a threshold.

You probably need a gap of a second or two between these commands, and of course hold all commands from the PC while you are injecting, so the commands don't overrun each other.

Edit: the CRCs are CA FA for the first command, and D6 7B for the second, as calculated from this on-line calculator. So if using TeraTerm with the appropriate setup, the commands to try them out from TeraTerm would be
MNCHGC0500 alt J alt z enter
MNCHGC0499 alt V { enter


[ Edit: "EEPROM value " -> "EEPROM maximum charge current value " ]
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Sat, 19 May 2018, 16:28

I will try this and i will write back . Thank you !

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Sun, 20 May 2018, 17:12

coulomb wrote:
Fri, 18 May 2018, 19:47
mirceaalex001 wrote:
Fri, 18 May 2018, 19:24
any idea how can i stop this ? or, where to start ?
If you have the ability to inject commands to the PIP, and since you are using patched firmware, I'd try this pair of commands:
MNCHGC0500<CRC><CR>
MNCHGC0499<CRC><CR>
This sets the dynamic charge current to zero, then sets it back to the EEPROM standard value and exits dynamic charge control mode. The advantage here is that you don't need to know what the EEPROM maximum charge current value is, it will use whatever has been set. It also won't reset the SCC, but at this time of day with no solar power available anyway, that doesn't matter. You can calculate the CRC characters once, then never have to change them. Perhaps you could insert an Arduino or similar between the PC and the PIP to do this at a fixed time of day. Or it could monitor packets to see when the solar power goes below a threshold.

You probably need a gap of a second or two between these commands, and of course hold all commands from the PC while you are injecting, so the commands don't overrun each other.

Edit: the CRCs are CA FA for the first command, and D6 7B for the second, as calculated from this on-line calculator. So if using TeraTerm with the appropriate setup, the commands to try them out from TeraTerm would be
MNCHGC0500 alt J alt z enter
MNCHGC0499 alt V { enter


[ Edit: "EEPROM value " -> "EEPROM maximum charge current value " ]
I tried to use Tera Term but i didn`t managed to send the commands, it seems i don`t have any response from the eeprom. Meanwhile , i have opened the cover , removed the plastic protection , and did some measurements , and yes it seems , somehow , i got some dc input from the relays . When the relays are open , i get power on the driver 1 or driver 2 . ( red or black cables ) , and then , the power seems to go in the pv input . The problem persists . Is that any way to reflash the whole eeprom?

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Sun, 20 May 2018, 17:13

or the scc?
Oh , and it seems that i find another bug // When pv panels are connected , in the normal way , when a heavy load occurred , the scc , disconnect the panels, and then reconnect them , but now , is making some strange relay noises and the pv panels stays connected , even when heavy load punches .

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by stuart » Mon, 21 May 2018, 10:54

Hi
I have owned two PIP-4048MS for about 5 years and just connected them together. (They were the first of the parallel version) However I purchased them a few months apart and I have an error 71 / NE flashing when starting. They are versions 52.20 and 52.25. After getting nowhere with manufacture support I thought I would look for help elsewhere. Now I have found this forum and am a little overwhelmed with information.
Where do I start?
Thanks in advance.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Mon, 21 May 2018, 11:10

stuart wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 10:54
Hi
I have owned two PIP-4048MS for about 5 years and just connected them together. (They were the first of the parallel version) However I purchased them a few months apart and I have an error 71 / NE flashing when starting. They are versions 52.20 and 52.25. After getting nowhere with manufacture support I thought I would look for help elsewhere. Now I have found this forum and am a little overwhelmed with information.
Where do I start?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Stuart,

That error message just means that the firmware versions don't match. Given that your PIPs are so old, the safest way to get them to parallel would probably be to upgrade them both to 52.30 which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274

Let us know if you need help with that.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data » Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:08

Dear readers,

where can I order a serial/RS232 module for the inverter?
Mine has the USB-only board...

Best Regards,

data

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:04

data wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:08
where can I order a serial/RS232 module for the inverter?
We mention Jaycar for the serial to RS-232 board. However, see below.
Mine has the USB-only board...
Ah. As far as I know, no models that have the USB-only board can use the firmware (factory or patched) found on this site. I don't understand how the USB port works, but if you can update firmware through the USB port, then you won't need an RS232 to USB adapter.

Perhaps the issue is merely that USB ports tend to appear as virtual com ports whose number part is 10 or more, e.g. COM12. You might be able to use Windows' Device Manager to re-assign the virtual COM port to something between COM1 and COM9.

What model of inverter-charger do you have?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:18

But I think that you're saying that the SCC relay coils (there are two in parallel) are turned on somehow. That would require of the order of a watt, which is some 20 mA at 50 V, and would require more than that (a few watts) to drive the SCC processor and associated electronics as well. But I can't imagine the current draw from the battery being near the 28 W that has been mentioned, just for the SCC electronics.
I have found another way to turn it off ( the panels ) is by setting the max charge to 0 [ amps ] and then back to desired amp . After it disconnect that relay , is ok , until is connected again, so is like is some dc voltage on the other side of the relay , or is like a circuit that closes with that relay . Do You have any ideas what can be ? Or if i can set the pv input voltage cutoff .... ?Thank you !
It sounds like what is happening is that somehow some of these SCCs are drawing power from the main battery even when the PV input is not present. They are designed to take their power (for the electronics) from the PV input only. However, I could imagine some errant path whereby the battery could supply power to the electronics, keeping the output relays on. The relays are between the SCC output and the main battery. That would cause a small drain from the main battery, which would go away when the SCC is told to turn off its relays; it sounds like setting the maximum charge current to zero amps does this.

Since the SCC stays off after forcing the relay off once, it suggests that the SCC isn't getting power from the PV input. But it's not certain, because relays require a lot more voltage (and hence power) to pull in than to hold their held-in position. If you have leakage across your PV switch, it might be enough power to hold the relays in, but not enough to pull them in once off.

You could prove that one way or the other by disconnecting one or both wires to the PV input; if there is no significant leakage across your PV switch, this should make no difference. Do this at the end of a day before forcing off the relays, of course.
Yes , after i have opened the case of the inverter and measured , it seems that the coils stays on ( driver 1 or driver 2 ) as they are noted on the board .

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data » Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:58

coulomb:
We have a couple of 2424MSD here. Reason for swapping out the serial board is, that it is crap.

At the moment, we have them connected each to an OrangePi zero, running Armbian and use SolPipLog in xvfb in order to get the statistics into emoncms.
Instead I would prefer to use just an ESP8266 / wemos d1 mini / nodemcu connected to the serial port and running MQTT. That way, I could use
almost any home-automation software (domoticz, iobroker, etc) in addition to emoncms and send also commands to the inverter.

From what we have seen, the USB-Module uses the same connection as the serial modules. In fact, that the inverter has a serial port conected to this
really crappy Cypress serial<->USB <-> virtual serial bridge. God, I hate them for this design decision. One option would be to just replace the internal
module with an ESP8266 but I would lose my dry-contact.

See https://www.photovoltaikforum.com/pv-in ... s3240.html
Last edited by data on Mon, 21 May 2018, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 21 May 2018, 21:10

data wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:58
We have a couple of 2424MSD here. Reason for swapping out the serial board is, that it is crap.
Oh. My misunderstanding then. Sorry.

I thought you could get the serial boards, and other spares, from MPPSolar.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data » Mon, 21 May 2018, 21:28

I have already asked them, but they didn't have any to sell.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by stuart » Tue, 22 May 2018, 06:58

weber wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 11:10
Hi Stuart,

That error message just means that the firmware versions don't match. Given that your PIPs are so old, the safest way to get them to parallel would probably be to upgrade them both to 52.30 which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274

Let us know if you need help with that.
Just reporting back. With a big smile on my face I want to thank you for your help with this. I downloaded the 52.30 update files. Ran the update program and guess what. It did what it should and updated. About 8min later I updated the second unit and hooked up the parallel cables and bingo. It just worked! No more error 71 firmware version error.

Given I have an older units would this be the best/latest update I can load?

Thanks again for your help.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Tue, 22 May 2018, 09:52

stuart wrote:
Tue, 22 May 2018, 06:58
Just reporting back. With a big smile on my face I want to thank you for your help with this. I downloaded the 52.30 update files. Ran the update program and guess what. It did what it should and updated. About 8min later I updated the second unit and hooked up the parallel cables and bingo. It just worked! No more error 71 firmware version error.

Given I have an older units would this be the best/latest update I can load?

Thanks again for your help.
That's great to hear, Stuart.

52.30 was merely the safest firmware for you. It does not correct the premature-float bug. Although I can't guarantee it will work with your machines, the best and latest firmware at the time of writing is 73.00c which can be found here. The latest can always be found via the Firmware section of the index post.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ibiza » Wed, 23 May 2018, 17:21

Hi Coulomb/Weber, I installed the latest version (BC1 73 00c)of your upgrade and I don't have any issue. It works perfectly. I don't need to tall you how grateful I am ( other users did it and I agree with them). The reason for this post is : I found very useful feature (besides others) which displayed the temperature of the inverter(s). Since I am running ICC monitoring softer it would be very useful to have the temp. displayed ,not on the LCD only but on the laptop. I spoke to the creator of the ICC about using the temp data in his software. He says if you want to" return the temp in the string what the inverter send back" he could use it do display multi inverters temp. It would be useful for multi inverter users Like me to have everything on one screen. As the upgrades of the firmware are your intellectual properties we are asking for your help, but wouldn't mind if you disagree with that.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 23 May 2018, 18:00

Thanks Ibiza. The temperature can be obtained via Voltronics' undocumented Q1 command.
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p60229
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ibiza » Wed, 23 May 2018, 18:31

Thanks Weber for your help. I will let you know how the testing is going.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35

Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?

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