PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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mirceaalex001
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 »

coulomb wrote: Fri, 18 May 2018, 19:47
mirceaalex001 wrote: Fri, 18 May 2018, 19:24 any idea how can i stop this ? or, where to start ?
If you have the ability to inject commands to the PIP, and since you are using patched firmware, I'd try this pair of commands:
MNCHGC0500<CRC><CR>
MNCHGC0499<CRC><CR>
This sets the dynamic charge current to zero, then sets it back to the EEPROM standard value and exits dynamic charge control mode. The advantage here is that you don't need to know what the EEPROM maximum charge current value is, it will use whatever has been set. It also won't reset the SCC, but at this time of day with no solar power available anyway, that doesn't matter. You can calculate the CRC characters once, then never have to change them. Perhaps you could insert an Arduino or similar between the PC and the PIP to do this at a fixed time of day. Or it could monitor packets to see when the solar power goes below a threshold.

You probably need a gap of a second or two between these commands, and of course hold all commands from the PC while you are injecting, so the commands don't overrun each other.

Edit: the CRCs are CA FA for the first command, and D6 7B for the second, as calculated from this on-line calculator. So if using TeraTerm with the appropriate setup, the commands to try them out from TeraTerm would be
MNCHGC0500 alt J alt z enter
MNCHGC0499 alt V { enter


[ Edit: "EEPROM value " -> "EEPROM maximum charge current value " ]
I tried to use Tera Term but i didn`t managed to send the commands, it seems i don`t have any response from the eeprom. Meanwhile , i have opened the cover , removed the plastic protection , and did some measurements , and yes it seems , somehow , i got some dc input from the relays . When the relays are open , i get power on the driver 1 or driver 2 . ( red or black cables ) , and then , the power seems to go in the pv input . The problem persists . Is that any way to reflash the whole eeprom?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 »

or the scc?
Oh , and it seems that i find another bug // When pv panels are connected , in the normal way , when a heavy load occurred , the scc , disconnect the panels, and then reconnect them , but now , is making some strange relay noises and the pv panels stays connected , even when heavy load punches .
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by stuart »

Hi
I have owned two PIP-4048MS for about 5 years and just connected them together. (They were the first of the parallel version) However I purchased them a few months apart and I have an error 71 / NE flashing when starting. They are versions 52.20 and 52.25. After getting nowhere with manufacture support I thought I would look for help elsewhere. Now I have found this forum and am a little overwhelmed with information.
Where do I start?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber »

stuart wrote: Mon, 21 May 2018, 10:54 Hi
I have owned two PIP-4048MS for about 5 years and just connected them together. (They were the first of the parallel version) However I purchased them a few months apart and I have an error 71 / NE flashing when starting. They are versions 52.20 and 52.25. After getting nowhere with manufacture support I thought I would look for help elsewhere. Now I have found this forum and am a little overwhelmed with information.
Where do I start?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Stuart,

That error message just means that the firmware versions don't match. Given that your PIPs are so old, the safest way to get them to parallel would probably be to upgrade them both to 52.30 which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274

Let us know if you need help with that.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data »

Dear readers,

where can I order a serial/RS232 module for the inverter?
Mine has the USB-only board...

Best Regards,

data
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb »

data wrote: Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:08 where can I order a serial/RS232 module for the inverter?
We mention Jaycar for the serial to RS-232 board. However, see below.
Mine has the USB-only board...
Ah. As far as I know, no models that have the USB-only board can use the firmware (factory or patched) found on this site. I don't understand how the USB port works, but if you can update firmware through the USB port, then you won't need an RS232 to USB adapter.

Perhaps the issue is merely that USB ports tend to appear as virtual com ports whose number part is 10 or more, e.g. COM12. You might be able to use Windows' Device Manager to re-assign the virtual COM port to something between COM1 and COM9.

What model of inverter-charger do you have?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 »

But I think that you're saying that the SCC relay coils (there are two in parallel) are turned on somehow. That would require of the order of a watt, which is some 20 mA at 50 V, and would require more than that (a few watts) to drive the SCC processor and associated electronics as well. But I can't imagine the current draw from the battery being near the 28 W that has been mentioned, just for the SCC electronics.
I have found another way to turn it off ( the panels ) is by setting the max charge to 0 [ amps ] and then back to desired amp . After it disconnect that relay , is ok , until is connected again, so is like is some dc voltage on the other side of the relay , or is like a circuit that closes with that relay . Do You have any ideas what can be ? Or if i can set the pv input voltage cutoff .... ?Thank you !
It sounds like what is happening is that somehow some of these SCCs are drawing power from the main battery even when the PV input is not present. They are designed to take their power (for the electronics) from the PV input only. However, I could imagine some errant path whereby the battery could supply power to the electronics, keeping the output relays on. The relays are between the SCC output and the main battery. That would cause a small drain from the main battery, which would go away when the SCC is told to turn off its relays; it sounds like setting the maximum charge current to zero amps does this.

Since the SCC stays off after forcing the relay off once, it suggests that the SCC isn't getting power from the PV input. But it's not certain, because relays require a lot more voltage (and hence power) to pull in than to hold their held-in position. If you have leakage across your PV switch, it might be enough power to hold the relays in, but not enough to pull them in once off.

You could prove that one way or the other by disconnecting one or both wires to the PV input; if there is no significant leakage across your PV switch, this should make no difference. Do this at the end of a day before forcing off the relays, of course.
Yes , after i have opened the case of the inverter and measured , it seems that the coils stays on ( driver 1 or driver 2 ) as they are noted on the board .
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data »

coulomb:
We have a couple of 2424MSD here. Reason for swapping out the serial board is, that it is crap.

At the moment, we have them connected each to an OrangePi zero, running Armbian and use SolPipLog in xvfb in order to get the statistics into emoncms.
Instead I would prefer to use just an ESP8266 / wemos d1 mini / nodemcu connected to the serial port and running MQTT. That way, I could use
almost any home-automation software (domoticz, iobroker, etc) in addition to emoncms and send also commands to the inverter.

From what we have seen, the USB-Module uses the same connection as the serial modules. In fact, that the inverter has a serial port conected to this
really crappy Cypress serial<->USB <-> virtual serial bridge. God, I hate them for this design decision. One option would be to just replace the internal
module with an ESP8266 but I would lose my dry-contact.

See https://www.photovoltaikforum.com/pv-in ... s3240.html
Last edited by data on Mon, 21 May 2018, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb »

data wrote: Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:58 We have a couple of 2424MSD here. Reason for swapping out the serial board is, that it is crap.
Oh. My misunderstanding then. Sorry.

I thought you could get the serial boards, and other spares, from MPP Solar.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data »

I have already asked them, but they didn't have any to sell.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by stuart »

weber wrote: Mon, 21 May 2018, 11:10 Hi Stuart,

That error message just means that the firmware versions don't match. Given that your PIPs are so old, the safest way to get them to parallel would probably be to upgrade them both to 52.30 which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274

Let us know if you need help with that.
Just reporting back. With a big smile on my face I want to thank you for your help with this. I downloaded the 52.30 update files. Ran the update program and guess what. It did what it should and updated. About 8min later I updated the second unit and hooked up the parallel cables and bingo. It just worked! No more error 71 firmware version error.

Given I have an older units would this be the best/latest update I can load?

Thanks again for your help.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber »

stuart wrote: Tue, 22 May 2018, 06:58 Just reporting back. With a big smile on my face I want to thank you for your help with this. I downloaded the 52.30 update files. Ran the update program and guess what. It did what it should and updated. About 8min later I updated the second unit and hooked up the parallel cables and bingo. It just worked! No more error 71 firmware version error.

Given I have an older units would this be the best/latest update I can load?

Thanks again for your help.
That's great to hear, Stuart.

52.30 was merely the safest firmware for you. It does not correct the premature-float bug. Although I can't guarantee it will work with your machines, the best and latest firmware at the time of writing is 73.00c which can be found here. The latest can always be found via the Firmware section of the index post.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ibiza »

Hi Coulomb/Weber, I installed the latest version (BC1 73 00c)of your upgrade and I don't have any issue. It works perfectly. I don't need to tall you how grateful I am ( other users did it and I agree with them). The reason for this post is : I found very useful feature (besides others) which displayed the temperature of the inverter(s). Since I am running ICC monitoring softer it would be very useful to have the temp. displayed ,not on the LCD only but on the laptop. I spoke to the creator of the ICC about using the temp data in his software. He says if you want to" return the temp in the string what the inverter send back" he could use it do display multi inverters temp. It would be useful for multi inverter users Like me to have everything on one screen. As the upgrades of the firmware are your intellectual properties we are asking for your help, but wouldn't mind if you disagree with that.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber »

Thanks Ibiza. The temperature can be obtained via Voltronics' undocumented Q1 command.
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p60229
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ibiza »

Thanks Weber for your help. I will let you know how the testing is going.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 »

Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb »

mirceaalex001 wrote: Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35 is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
There are only half a dozen commands that the main processor sends to the SCC, and none of them affect the minimum PV voltage, at least not directly.

So you'd have to patch the SCC code. Possible, but a lot of work. Why do you want this?
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber »

mirceaalex001 wrote: Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35 Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
What do you mean by the min solar voltage? What makes you think it can go down to 40 volts? My understanding is that the minimum voltage on the solar inputs that the PIP's SCC can maximum-power-point-track, is about 1.5 volts above whatever the battery voltage happens to be at the time.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 »

coulomb wrote: Thu, 24 May 2018, 09:08
mirceaalex001 wrote: Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35 is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
There are only half a dozen commands that the main processor sends to the SCC, and none of them affect the minimum PV voltage, at least not directly.

So you'd have to patch the SCC code. Possible, but a lot of work. Why do you want this?
This may be a way to fix my problem , since the voltage that keeps the scc on in the night is like only two volts plus the batteries , with a 55vdc setting , it may cut the scc.. But if is something too hard , i will try another fix . Thank you !
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 »

weber wrote: Thu, 24 May 2018, 10:20
mirceaalex001 wrote: Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35 Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
What do you mean by the min solar voltage? What makes you think it can go down to 40 volts? My understanding is that the minimum voltage on the solar inputs that the PIP's SCC can maximum-power-point-track, is about 1.5 volts above whatever the battery voltage happens to be at the time.
My problem is that at night , the scc stays on , because somehow i get voltage on the scc coils ( driver 1 , driver 2 ) And i need a setting that will cut scc at higher voltage ( i have like 2volts + the battery voltage all the time on the pv input ,when the scc relay is connected ).If i change charging settings at night , and the relay disengage , evreything is ok untill next morning (The pv input voltage disapear )
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Revlac »

I don't think changing the minimum solar voltage (if possible) would make any difference to the situation.
I still think there may be a setting's conflict that tells the the relay drivers to stay on. (expecting soler power to still be available)
That is the situation I had, I also had an fault code on the screen.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 »

Revlac wrote: Thu, 24 May 2018, 18:01 I don't think changing the minimum solar voltage (if possible) would make any difference to the situation.
I still think there may be a setting's conflict that tells the the relay drivers to stay on. (expecting soler power to still be available)
That is the situation I had, I also had an fault code on the screen.
I don`t have any fault code , every thing seems to work as it should , except i got voltage on the pv input from batteries , when the relay is on .
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by PurePower »

weber wrote: Mon, 07 May 2018, 18:29 Beta Version of Patched Firmware 73.00c

This is the third version of our patched firmware based on factory firmware version 73.00. This patched firmware has all the same patches as 73.00b and earlier patched firmwares, including Dynamic Current Control and AussieView™. This includes fixing the infamous premature float bugs.

In addition, 73.00c makes the following improvements/bug fixes:

1. We fixed the bug where, after changing a setting once, you could not change it again without first pressing the up and down buttons. We also fixed the bug where, while changing a setting, you could not go more than 135 steps up or 120 steps down. This affected the Absorb time setting [32]. These were pointed out by user OomD on the South African Power Forum.

2. In versions 72.70c and 73.00a/b we attempted unsuccessfully to improve the accuracy of low current readings by the simple expedient of subtracting 1 amp to account for losses. But forum-contributor @sinux, pointed out that the losses during AC Charging are much less than 1 amp and so we had in fact made AC charge current readings less accurate.

In this version (73.00c) we have improved the accuracy of all charge and discharge current readings, by using more complicated formulae. A detailed description can be found near the end of the Dynamic Current Control manual, as linked above. These changes do not affect the relationship between requested currents and actual currents, only between actual currents and displayed or reported currents.


Note: This firmware is only suitable for the 48 V models with a single low-voltage MPPT and a power factor of 0.8 (4 kW / 5 kVA), not those with dual or triple MPPTs or a power factor of 1.0 (5 kW / 5 kVA), and not those with a maximum PV array open circuit voltage greater than 145 V DC.

For lithium ferrous phosphate (LFP) (16S or 15S)
dsp_BF1_73.00c.zip


For lead acid (24S), lithium cobalt-blends (LCO, NMC, NCM, NCA) (14S), and lithium titanate (LTO) (21S)
dsp_BC1_73.00c.zip


For reflashing instructions see the 72.70b reflashing instructions, but ignore the zip files there.
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber »

PurePower wrote: Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07 Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?
No issues. It's good to go. We just need to get around to updating the version number to indicate release instead of beta.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kurnol »

Good afternoon all,

Been running a second 4048 in parallel for a couple of months now, a couple of minor issues I have noticed.

Since connecting the second unit the pv input is not recording anymore in watchpower.
Up until 2 weeks ago my system was 3kw of panels connected to the master unit, parallel connections for the batteries and ac output between master and slave.
While typing this I wonder if this problem could be I had the slave highlighted in watchpower.

2 weeks ago I connected another 3kw of panels but this time to the slave unit, when I fired them both back up the slave unit was constantly charging the batteries at around 10 amps but the master seemed to pulse with its charging, that is the charge light would illuminate the switch off, then back on etc.

I assume connecting all 6kw to the master will fix this, but I was following an online drawing I saw with separate banks connected to different inverters?

Anybody else experienced this?

Thanks in advance for any info.
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