PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by curasun » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 05:42

Hello everyone.

Can MPPtracker and Watchpower be run on the same pc or laptop?
Why I'am asking? I had watchtower running nicely on my laptop, but 2 day ago I installed a PCM60X CC and installed MPPtracker on the same laptop.
After that when I want to start Watchpower it starts MPPtracker. It looks like MPPtracker overwrote Watchpower.
what can I do? please help

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by BruceS » Sat, 21 Apr 2018, 18:08

Is the 'exe' file still here? "C:\Program Files (x86)\WatchPower1.05\WatchPower.exe" ?
Try clicking on the WatchPower.exe directly?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sat, 21 Apr 2018, 19:59

simat wrote:
Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 13:12
We haven't had enough sun to fully charge the battery but I have noticed on a couple of occasions that the PIP has gone from Bulk QQ=11 to Absorb QQ=12 well before the battery voltage has reached the CV voltage.
Hi Simon, it is considered to be in absorb stage when it is within 0.5 volts of the absorb voltage setting. You can read more details of the absorb to float conditions here:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4332&p=64095#p64095
Scroll down to the green heading "Charge Termination Conditions".
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mohfamous » Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 15:25

Hello all thanks for your quick reply
I have on my 5000VA LCD error code 08
in manual shows update firmware what do I do?
and thanks

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 17:01

mohfamous wrote:
Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 15:25
LCD error code 08
The user manual says that this fault code is "bus voltage too high". Yes, the service manual says to update the firmware, but I don't think this will fix it. I suspect that they don't expect this error to come up, but if it ever does come up consistently, perhaps they can fix it with a firmware update. Another thought is that perhaps if the firmware totally crashed (one of the tasks ended up "in the weeds"), then there is an outside chance that the bus soft start could be commanded to switch on on long after starting, while the inverter is running. Different firmware could overcome that problem. The manufacturer doesn't appear to use the watchdog timer to automatically reset in conditions like this.

One potential hardware problem that occurs to me is that perhaps the bus soft start "power supply" isn't turning off, or is coming on when it should not. Check R251, R250, a short from pins 3-4 of U16, U16 itself, perhaps U17 or any of the passives around U16.

If you don't have a reasonably recent firmware revision (say 72.40 or later), then I guess it's worth trying the suggested firmware update. But I'm not optimistic. See this topic's index in the first post for the latest patched firmware, and there are other links to official firmware if you don't want patched firmware for whatever reason.

Edit: Another thought is that when AC charging, a fault in the buck circuit might cause the bus voltage to become too high. When not AC charging, it is supposed to merely connect the inverter bus with the output of the DC-DC converter. Perhaps if its faulty, this could cause bus voltage problems at any time.

[ Edit: added "fault code" , and "to switch on"]
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mohfamous » Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 23:07

Hello
in error 09 I have changed the defected parts of Main board Mosfets and IGBTs
But I think there is problem in Control Board
Have you find any problem in your previous projects ?

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mohfamous » Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 23:20

and ow to test the control board

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Apr 2018, 10:05

mohfamous wrote:
Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 23:07
... I have changed the defected parts of Main board Mosfets and IGBTs
But I think there is problem in Control Board
Have you find any problem in your previous projects ?
No, I can't recall any problems with a control board, though I faintly remember attempting to trace a few parts of one once. The control board seems to be mainly the digital signals processor itself and lots of interface / buffering circuitry (analogue and digital). I think that there isn't much that would typically fail there.

I haven't seen a schematic diagram (official or traced) for the control/daughter/processor board. It will be very hard to test, because the processor has some 80 input/output pins, and the assignment of general purpose I/O signals to functions isn't documented. I know precious few from reading the firmware, e.g. GPIO5 seems to control the inverter relay, and GPIO7 seems to control the load relay (in both cases, a digital 1 at the processor turns the relay coil on).

We don't seem to have a post on debugging the gate drivers; I thought we did but can't find it. Perhaps you can find some inspiration from this post: Testing inverter gate drivers when the battery-side MOSFETs are removed (added to the index just today).
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 13:43

My inverter just stopped working. It shows error 90, no error 90 is included in the manual. Does anybody know what error 90 means?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kPJ5I ... jJx6eX2ate
Last edited by lopezjm2001 on Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 19:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:46

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 13:43
My inverter just stopped working. It shows error 90, no error 90 is included in the manual. Does anybody know what error 90 means?
It's not documented anywhere, so no one knows for sure. You can read my wild speculation here:
http://powerforum.co.za/topic/1865-axpe ... r-code-90/

Unfortunately, if I'm right, you'll have to take it up with your supplier, and ask pointed questions about the legality of the firmware. [ Edit: However, error 90 can also happen when using firmware versions 73.00 or 73.00a, in perfectly legitimate Voltronic Power hardware, if it came from the factory with firmware earlier than 73.00. ]


Unfortunately also, again if I'm right, the firmware will have locked out firmware updating. [ Edit: I got that part wrong. It seems that you can load new firmware while showing an error 90 (fault code 90). So to fix this error, update to any compatible firmware other than 73.00 or 73.00a. See also Attention Firmware Updaters.]
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 21:02

coulomb wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:46
Unfortunately, if I'm right, you'll have to take it up with your supplier, and ask pointed questions about the legality of the firmware. Unfortunately also, again if I'm right, the firmware will have locked out firmware updating.
My inverter is still communicating with Watchpower. I have sent an email to my supplier MPPSolar on Ebay. Also sent the email to peggy@mppsolar.com.

Maybe upgrading my firmware from 73.00a to 73.00b will fix the problem.

Thanks.

UPDATE: I just updated the firmware to 73.00b and the error 90 disappeared. WTF!!!! Looks like firmware 73.00a was dodgy....

UPDATE: The inverter works but the SCC no longer works.
Last edited by lopezjm2001 on Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 11:08, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 10:03

Installing the firmware update 73.00b made the error 90 disappear and the inverter section is now working but the SCC part no longer works. Any advice?

WatchPower is showing Secondary CPU version 00000.00. - not good. Looks like I will have to install my old PCM 60X to do the SCC job. I bought my PIP4048MS in 2015.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 11:00

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 21:02
UPDATE: I just updated the firmware to 73.00b and the error 90 disappeared. Now it is fully working. WTF!!!! Looks like firmware 73.00a was dodgy.... 8-), I spent most of my Saturday pulling my PIP4048MS to pieces looking for a fault and then putting it back together and then find out it was some sort of firmware issue. Thanks. :(
I'm sorry to hear you wasted all that time. But I don't understand why you didn't first search this thread for "error 90", to find that we posted the solution a month ago.

No, there was nothing wrong with 73.00a (the original 73.00 has the same behaviour). They just weren't meant to run on older hardware. But 73.00b works around that.
UPDATE: The inverter works but the SCC no longer works.
Have you tried a complete power-down? Disconnect all power sources from the PIP including battery, AC in and PV in. Wait for it to go completely dark and quiet, count to 10, then power it back up again.

If that doesn't work: Did you also update your SCC firmware from what originally came with the inverter? What version did it come with? What version was in it when the error 90 happened? You might be able to fix it by reloading the older SCC firmware. Or by reloading the same SCC firmware you had in it. See
viewtopic.php?p=64096#p64096
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:00

[ Edit Coulomb: Arrgh! I've edited instead of quoted again. Sigh. Most of the post is missing, sorry. ]

The SCC firmware is showing as 00000.00 and PV volts=0 and PV watts=0 during the day. It's like the SCC is dead.
Last edited by lopezjm2001 on Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:54, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:27

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:00
I am having trouble running the software for downloading firmware to the SCC.
Did you see the section on Updating the SCC at the end of this long post.
viewtopic.php?p=64096#p64096
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:55

weber wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:27
Did you see the section on Updating the SCC at the end of this long post.
viewtopic.php?p=64096#p64096
The msdos does not recognise the command regsvr32.exe.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Wsd6s ... unT6gYjxG_
I read the SOP and have used msdos before in the old days before windows started. I am using Windows 10 and I get these debug errors. May have to go to windows XP.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:31

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:55
I am using Windows 10 and I get these debug errors. May have to go to windows XP.
Googling the error message brings up many sites with solutions.
Here's one:
https://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/fix-not ... l-command/
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:40

lopezjm2001 wrote: The SCC firmware is showing as 00000.00 and PV volts=0 and PV watts=0 during the day. It's like the SCC is dead.
Under these conditions, I don't think you can update the SCC firmware. I assume you've checked for ≥ 60 VDC at the PV input with a multimeter?
The msdos does not recognise the command regsvr32.exe.
A command prompt window isn't quite the same as MS-DOS, but they appear to work much the same from the user's point of view. Just change to the directory with the regsvr32.exe file (i.e. use a cd command).
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:45

coulomb wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:40
Under these conditions, I don't think you can update the SCC firmware. I assume you've checked for ≥ 60 VDC at the PV input with a multimeter?
Yeap, measured about 100v DC.
coulomb wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:40
A command prompt window isn't quite the same as MS-DOS, but they appear to work much the same from the user's point of view. Just change to the directory with the regsvr32.exe file (i.e. use a cd command).
This time I ran CMD as an administrator and it all worked. This time it registered the .OCX file. I got the IAP program running now, connected to com 1, loaded file and MCU and is now parsing after I press the "FLASH" button. Then times out after 19 seconds. I Just need daylight to test it. Will try tomorrow. Thanks.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Mon, 30 Apr 2018, 15:01

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 21:02
UPDATE: The inverter works but the SCC no longer works.
After an unsuccessful try at downloading a firmware update to the SCC I checked the plugs and this time I actually read the PCB markings and realised that I had the two four pin plugs swapped between the LCD board and the SCC for the CAN. Now it all works including the SCC with no problems. Many thanks. :oops: So I was actually trying to flash the LCD doh....
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by al76 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 06:08

al76 wrote:
Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 09:28
weber wrote:
Wed, 14 Feb 2018, 19:39
al76 wrote:
Wed, 14 Feb 2018, 19:17
Is it worth following this up with mpp solar or move fwd with buying another unit and have this unit repaired in Aus? I was planning on a parallel system plus I will be needing a second independent system soon anyway.
I can't really advise you on such decisions. Except to say that I don't see that you have anything to lose by raising the problem with MPP Solar.

How long has the PIP-4048MS been in use? Could there be a fault in the isolation device between your PV array and the PIP?
I'm assuming the isolation device between the PV array and PIP is the large switch?

Any way I've been limping along with this situation where the solar charging starts from approx 9:30-11:30am on most sunny days all the while the pips relays click away. Except 1 day last week which was cloudy and the solar charging started at 7:30am.
This morning I woke up to a dead pip4048ms. Checked batterys, fired up geny. No hint of life. I've ordered a replacement unit this morning.
The unit was purchased Dec 2016.
Also worth noting. Both HRC fuses had blown. Has anyone had this experience? I'm assuming the pip developed a short??
Anyway I have the replacement pip installed (day 2) and its had issues each morning.
I log output from QPIGS and soon after sunrise I see a brief spike from the panels then nothing reported from panels. The battery volts reported by QPIGS seems to indicate charging is happening but the pip display also shows that no solar charging is happening. After a cold start ( disconnect panels, turn off unit, disconnect batteries, wait a bit, reconnect batteroes, turn on unit connect panels) the solar charging seems to report correctly via QPIGS and the panel display.
Anyone offer any clues?

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Wed, 02 May 2018, 07:36

al76 wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 06:08
Also worth noting. Both HRC fuses had blown. Has anyone had this experience? I'm assuming the pip developed a short??
It's not uncommon that when a PIP goes faulty, that it blows its MOSFETs, which fail shorted and present a short circuit across the battery. Surprisingly, this rarely results in battery fuses blowing, though there have been a few reported cases. I believe that this is because the narrow leads to the TO-220 cases tend to act as fuses, clearing the fault current before the main fuses, which are large and have a significant thermal "mass", heat up enough to blow. There is also a 200 A fuse inside the PIP, which also rarely blows. So repair of the older PIP will involve replacing at least half, possibly all the battery-side MOSFETs, and possibly some of their gate resistors and gate driver components. Depending on how the fault happened, there may be other faults, e.g. with the IGBTs that produce the 230 V output, and their gate driver circuitry. When they go, they typically take out a lot of components.
Anyway I have the replacement pip installed (day 2) and its had issues each morning.
I'm concerned that you may still have a wiring fault, which may even have contributed to the first unit blowing up (but this seems unlikely). You mention "connect panels"; presumably you don't use a screwdriver to insert the PV input leads; you must have some sort of switch or breakers that you turn on to connect your solar panels to your PIP. I'm wondering if these might have some sort of bad contact that is possibly temperature sensitive, which is high resistance when cold, and comes good when you switch everything off and on again later in the day when it's warmer. It might be moisture getting in somewhere at night. I think it's worth checking every crimp, wire, and component in the PV and battery parts of your installation. Tug every wire, and so on.

While checking your earlier posts for clues, I note that your older PIP reported firmware versions 72.70 (main) and 04.12 (SCC). Would these have been supplied from the factory, or would you have updated the firmwares at some point?

[ Edit: added "fail shorted and".]
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by gremlinman » Wed, 02 May 2018, 09:40

Hi everyone and thanks to all involved in the information in this thread. I have lost the RJ45 cable that came with pip4048ms, can I just buy any convertor on ebay or is it a special cable? Anyone know where I can get a replacement if so?

I already bought a "high quality" usb to serial device I just have no way to connect it to the pip atm.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 02 May 2018, 10:08

al76 wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 06:08
Anyway I have the replacement pip installed (day 2) and its had issues each morning.
I log output from QPIGS and soon after sunrise I see a brief spike from the panels then nothing reported from panels. The battery volts reported by QPIGS seems to indicate charging is happening but the pip display also shows that no solar charging is happening. After a cold start ( disconnect panels, turn off unit, disconnect batteries, wait a bit, reconnect batteroes, turn on unit connect panels) the solar charging seems to report correctly via QPIGS and the panel display.
Anyone offer any clues?
I understand you are using 72-cell panels. Is your PV array presently configured as 3 strings of 2 panels or 2 strings of 3 panels? As mentioned previously, strings of 3 may produce excessive open circuit voltage when cold.

You know about the premature-float bug right? The solution to that is to update to the latest patched firmware. See the index post.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 02 May 2018, 10:26

gremlinman wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 09:40
Hi everyone and thanks to all involved in the information in this thread. I have lost the RJ45 cable that came with pip4048ms, can I just buy any convertor on ebay or is it a special cable?
It's a non-standard cable. Its connections are described here.
Anyone know where I can get a replacement if so?
No. But you could make one from an ethernet cable and a D9 serial cable or connector.
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