PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

[coulomb]

While typing this I wonder if this problem could be I had the slave highlighted in watchpower.

That does seem to be the most likely explanation.

2 weeks ago I connected another 3kw of panels ... is the charge light would illuminate the[n] switch off, then back on etc.

Charging while a master takes a different path through the code compared to charging as a slave, so this is entirely possible, if the battery was nearing full. I assume you realise that when bulk or absorb charging, the LED flashes on and off with a period of about a second. Only in the float stage does the charge LED stay on solid.

I assume connecting all 6kw to the master will fix this

This will waste about half the panels on good solar days, since each inverter's SCC is only capable of delivering some 3 kW. Leave them split as they are now.

[Kurnol]

While typing this I wonder if this problem could be I had the slave highlighted in watchpower.

That does seem to be the most likely explanation.

Tested out today, still not showing a reading with either selected.

2 weeks ago I connected another 3kw of panels ... is the charge light would illuminate the[n] switch off, then back on etc.

Charging while a master takes a different path through the code compared to charging as a slave, so this is entirely possible, if the battery was nearing full. I assume you realise that when bulk or absorb charging, the LED flashes on and off with a period of about a second. Only in the float stage does the charge LED stay on solid.

While watching today and all seemed ok until the end of daylight, which is when I would have noticed the problem before. The slave was charging at 5 amps (float stage) and the master was switching on/off charging. The PV input for the master was around 100w, where as the slave was 350w.

I assume connecting all 6kw to the master will fix this

This will waste about half the panels on good solar days, since each inverter's SCC is only capable of delivering some 3 kW. Leave them split as they are now.

Thanks I will leave it the way it is.

[PurePower]

Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?

No issues. It's good to go. We just need to get around to updating the version number to indicate release instead of beta.

Coulomb just brought this to my attention:
Ebrsa on the South Africa Power Forum: http://powerforum.co.za/topic/1997-axpe ... -on-delay/
It may have nothing to do with the beta 73.00c firmware. But it's only fair to let you know. And so we'll be keeping it beta for a while yet.

Thanks, but I don't think it's firmware related. Lets watch that topic and take it from there.

[frisca]

Hello,

I have purchased a 4KVa/5kW inverter last year and hooked it up with 8x140Ah AGM batteries. All well (at first), yet after changing 6 of the 8 batteries (warranty), I decided to get rid of them and purchased a 5kWh LFP battery.
Believing that it is as simple as changing the voltage and it would work, I soon got face to face with reality.
After reading this forum, I updated the firmware to 73b without any problems (Many thx for that!). Initially it looked good, yet I realize now that the loading is still problematic and would require your help.

Regardless of the volatege that I set the invertor to stop charging at, the BMS of the battery kicks in and stops the charge displaying a "cell over max voltage" error. After reading on this forum all the info I was able to assimilate, I now believe that the problem is related to the "float" part of the charging process and to the fact that the inverter is not really stopping the voltage at the set level. Right now, the fload is set to 52V, down from the 52.7V that came as default after I updated the firmare.

This is the inverter:

This is the battery:

And the URL to the battery website: https://alpha-ess.com/Web/ProductBatter ... 722d0678ad

Is there any way that you know of that I can get the inverter to connect to the battery BMS? If so, please help
I am sorry if this question was asked before here. I was unable to find it.

[simat]

Regardless of the volatege that I set the invertor to stop charging at, the BMS of the battery kicks in and stops the charge displaying a "cell over max voltage" error. After reading on this forum all the info I was able to assimilate, I now believe that the problem is related to the "float" part of the charging process and to the fact that the inverter is not really stopping the voltage at the set level. Right now, the fload is set to 52V, down from the 52.7V that came as default after I updated the firmare.

From the voltage range in the datasheet of 46-54V, I would say that this battery is 15 cells in series, can you ask the supplier to confirm this? It this case a float voltage of 52V is too high. I would try a CV/bulk voltage of 51.8V (3.45v/cell) and float voltage of 50.2V (3.35V/cell). You might have to set the CV/bulk voltage higher to get the balancing circuitry working.

Simon

[frisca]

From the voltage range in the datasheet of 46-54V, I would say that this battery is 15 cells in series, can you ask the supplier to confirm this? It this case a float voltage of 52V is too high. I would try a CV/bulk voltage of 51.8V (3.45v/cell) and float voltage of 50.2V (3.35V/cell). You might have to set the CV/bulk voltage higher to get the balancing circuitry working.

Simon

Many thanks! I wrote them for information and will try to set your recommended voltages. Nice and sunny in Europe right now and I should have an answer within hours. Will write back with an update in case others encounter the same issue.

[curasun]

Hello guys.
One Quick question.
Which NTC can I use as a external battery temperature sensor for my MPPsolar PCM60x charge controller?

Thx in advance.
R.G.Specht
Dutch Caribbean.

[ionutd]

Hi guys,
I have a PIP-4048 and i want to buy 2 more to connect in series and have a 3 phase system, my setup will have 27 panels , 9 orietantion east, 9 west and 9 south
and will share the same battery.
Now i have some questions regarding the setup i want to do
- in a 3 phase system its the voltage between 2 phases 400v ? i want to run a heating pump that has 3 phase connection.
- in case of one of the inverts doesn't have so much solar energy can take the extra energy from the other two trough battery ?
Thanks
IonutD

[coulomb]

... my setup will have 27 panels , 9 orietantion east, 9 west and 9 south
and will share the same battery.

Hopefully you live in the northern hemisphere, or your south facing panels will see a lot of shade
PIPs in parallel / 3-phase are required to share the same battery.

- in a 3 phase system its the voltage between 2 phases 400v ?

Yes. 230 V × √3 = 398 V.

- in case of one of the inverts doesn't have so much solar energy can take the extra energy from the other two t[h]rough battery ?

Yes, they all draw their power from the same battery, so it doesn't matter which machine charges the battery.

[dan.fador]

Hello,
I need some help with my configuration i just mounted a PIP4048MS 0.8 (2018) whit two series Tesla Model S modules. I setup param 5 to USE and a I set:
param 12 at 44
param 13 at 48
param 26 at 48
param 27 at 48
param 29 at 40

My problem is param 12, because I would like to set them to 41 but the minimum value is 44. With modified firmware can I set the 12 param to 41?

Thank you !

[coulomb]

I just mounted a PIP4048MS 0.8 (2018) whit two series Tesla Model S modules.

Ah. My understanding is that Tesla modules are 6S of a 3.75 V (nominal) chemistry. So two modules in series is 12S. The inverters and therefore our patched firmware works best with 16S or 15S LFP, 24S lead acid, or 14S of most lithium chemistries. So 12S is almost 15% short.

12S x 3.75 is only 45 V. It's not obvious that you can drive full power from such a low voltage. Lower voltage means higher current in the battery and battery-to-bus full bridges.

My problem is param 12, because I would like to set them to 41 but the minimum value is 44. With modified firmware can I set the 12 param to 41?

From the AussieView™ manual (accessible from the index in the first post of this topic):

b2u [12] ... V  Battery to utility voltage (lower threshold) (volts)
                (when out = Sbu or SoL)
                LC: 44 to 51 in steps of 1 (46 default)
                LF: 46 to 53 in steps of 1 (48 default)

You'd be using the LC version, since it is the lower voltage version of the two versions of patched firmware. So you'd still be restricted to 44 V minimum. The LF version has 46 V minimum, an even worse fit for your application.

Weber and I have no plans for another version of patched firmware, and really no desire to make more work for ourselves if there is no great call for it.

It seems to me that you'd be better off using one third of another Tesla module to get the battery voltage higher, where it is compatible with the hardware.

[ Edit: linked to the AussieView™ manual ]

[coulomb]

It's not obvious that you can drive full power from such a low voltage.

Further thoughts on that. In battery mode, the "bus" voltage (which the inverter runs from) is about 8x the battery voltage (less some voltage drops), because the high frequency transformer seems to have a turns ratio of 1:8. To generate 230 VAC, you need of the order of 230 × √2 = 325 VDC, call it 335 VDC with IGBT and inductor voltage drops (absolute bare minimum, it may need more). Again ignoring losses, that means you'd need at least 335/8 = 42 VDC at the battery side full bridge. With various voltage drops in the MOSFETs, cables, PCB tracks etc, I'd guess that it's not practical to run the inverter at less than 44 VDC.

Consider that a lead acid battery (which these inverters were obviously designed for) only have a rested terminal voltage of 48.0 V when near 0% SOC, and might sag to perhaps 44 VDC (depending on many factors) under load. A 12 V car battery is really a 12.6 V battery; that's why 12AU7 valves (audio/radio tubes) are designed to run at a filament voltage of 12.6 V (and 6V6 valves are designed for 6.3 V filament voltage). That's what you typically get from a 6S (nominal 12 V) or 3S (nominal 6 V) lead acid battery.

[ Edit: so the PIP-4048 inverter is really designed for a 12.6 x 4 = 50.4 V battery. "48 volts" is based on two volts per lead acid cell, a nice round number. ]

[dan.fador]

Hi coulomb and thank you very much for your very complete answer. If I understood well the solution can be two:
1. Brake the tesla module and create (buying 18650 frame) a new configuration adding 74 cells for each module and get a total of 14S
2. Buy a new tesla module and put 3 modules in series anc get 18S x 3,75V = 67,5. But pip4048 is able to charge 18s configuration? I will need in this case: cutoff (low) voltage = 59,4 (3,3 x18) and stop charging at 73,8V (4,1 * 18).

Thank you very much for your help !

[coulomb]

The PIPs certainly can't handle 18S. It would have been great for DIYers if each Tesla battery module was 7S instead of 6S, a much more standard 24ish volts.

[Emblema]

Hi all,

I have a couple of problem with my pip4048:

1)

For about a month, I have a problem, when it rains the panels get wet and nothing happens, they continue to work well. The morning after, when the sunlight starts the panels do not start, ie the inverter reads the voltage of the panels but not them let's start in production when the sun dries well everything then makes them leave.

What could it be like?

2)

For about ten days, the batteries are no longer in floating mode but remain in CV mode.
Could it be connected to problem 1?
How can I solve?

http://pv4kw.ddns.net (For who want to see real-time)



15 panels IBC SOLAR PolySol 265W ZX4 Inverter 5KVA (MPP Solar pip4048 model november 2016 Fw 72.90 - 4.12), 8 batteries AGM 400AH (48V)


If anybody help me...

Thanks a lot

[charliefd]

Joining in with a 3 phase setup using 3 x EFFEKTA AX-M 48V 5000VA and a couple of PYLONTECH 'US2000 plus' lifepo4 managed battery modules ( 2 x 50Ah)

Many thanks for the great effort to reverse engineer and improve the firmware on these inverters! I'll read some more and I will flash the latest firmware as soon as I know a bit more about ... all of this

If there's any info I can contribute about the inverters (they are brand new but 0.8PF version!) let me know.

For now (4 days) they seem to do their job but it is obvious they are a poor match to the pylontech battery bank. I use the voltages for charging (bulk/float) that I found in some victron documentation for interfacing with my bateries: 53.2V bulk charge and 53.0v floating. I want to maximize solar use so I only charge solar and tuned the voltages for going to utilities and back to various voltages from very conservative initially to foolish values that made the BMS cut the batteries off last night (at least I suppose the BMS did this). I'm running today with 47V and 50V respectively.

There is very poor matching on voltage measuring between the 3 units: 0.4V difference between highest and lowest one, with the one in the middle being 0.1V lower than the top value. The difference seems to be constant over a wide battery voltage and current levels. Is there any calibration that can be made on these?

Next step is to plug in Raspberry PI running ICC to monitor and log both the inverters and the batteries.

[PurePower]

15 panels IBC SOLAR PolySol 265W ZX4 Inverter 5KVA (MPP Solar pip4048 model november 2016 Fw 72.90 - 4.12), 8 batteries AGM 400AH (48V)


If anybody help me...

Thanks a lot

Out of interest, did you install the SCC Firmware 4.12 yourself?

[coulomb]

For now (4 days) they seem to do their job but it is obvious they are a poor match to the pylontech battery bank. I use the voltages for charging (bulk/float) that I found in some victron documentation for interfacing with my bateries: 53.2V bulk charge and 53.0v floating.

Those are a bit high. See the PowerForum (they seem to use a lot of Pylontech batteries there), e.g. this post.

There is very poor matching on voltage measuring between the 3 units: 0.4V difference between highest and lowest one, with the one in the middle being 0.1V lower than the top value. The difference seems to be constant over a wide battery voltage and current levels. Is there any calibration that can be made on these?

There is, and I have a document on how it's done. But it's a bit complex, and likely designed for factory or repair depot use only.

It seems more likely to me that the inverters are about correct (they're usually pretty good; specification is 0.3% from memory, which is about 0.15 V). Have you measured the voltage at the inverter terminals? You are likely to see small variations due to voltage drops across the cables. Are your battery cables thick enough? They should be 25 mm² at least, preferably 35 mm², or 50 mm².

Edit: Also, the inverter to battery cables should be of the same length (to where they are commoned), as near as possible.

[ Edit: cables -> battery cables ]

[charliefd]

Those are a bit high. See the PowerForum (they seem to use a lot of Pylontech batteries there), e.g. this post.

I'm reading as fast and as much as I can. It looks like I should lower the floating value to a safer value

There is very poor matching on voltage measuring between the 3 units: 0.4V difference between highest and lowest one .... Is there any calibration that can be made on these?

There is, and I have a document on how it's done. But it's a bit complex, and likely designed for factory or repair depot use only.

I'm going to search for the procedure. You've done a terrific job documenting these units, thank you!

It seems more likely to me that the inverters are about correct (they're usually pretty good; specification is 0.3% from memory, which is about 0.15 V). Have you measured the voltage at the inverter terminals? You are likely to see small variations due to voltage drops across the cables. Are your battery cables thick enough? They should be 25 mm² at least, preferably 35 mm², or 50 mm².

Edit: Also, the inverter to battery cables should be of the same length (to where they are commoned), as near as possible.

[ Edit: cables -> battery cables ]

I've measured at the terminals and at the point where the cables are commoned and the voltage difference is negligible: less than 0.015V on all inverters (no load). The inverters still display values 0.2 to 0.5V apart. The cables are 25mm^2 and short (different lengths: 25cm at the inverter showing the voltage very close to my voltmeter, 80cm to the one showing highest value (+0.25v), 1.3 m to the one showing 0.15V less than my voltmeter)

I'll raise the set-point for going back to utility to 48V as last night I lost power again. It sounds like the inverters are really hogging the remaining 15%-20% from the batteries during the night even though they are in bypass.

[ionutd]

Hi guys,
i want to add some Pylontech batteries to my setup,
Can the ICC software manage my PIPs for charging the Pylontech batteries using the modified firmware, or should i make my own scripts to manage the charging.
Thanks
IonutD

[mohfamous]

Hi My friends
My PIP4048
shows on the LCD error 57
?

[coulomb]

My PIP4048 shows on the LCD error 57

It seems that there is a test at startup to check for DC offsets in any of these:
* The current transformer measuring load current
* The hall effect sensor measuring inverter output current
* The current sharing sensor, presumably only if your machine is paralleled with others (not a single machine, or 3 machines in 3-phase).
Instantaneous current is averaged over some time period, and if the result for any of the three measurements is greater than 100 (which might represent 10 .0 A or possibly 1.00 A), then fault code 57 (error 57) will be set.

Hall effect devices are notorious for drifting, and being sensitive to stray magnetic fields, even being magnetised themselves. If your warranty has expired, you could possibly try demagnetising it; it's the blue part outlined in red below:

Hall effect sensor.jpg (106.86 KiB) Viewed 9048 times

Back in the days of magnetic tape recorders, there used to be a thing called a demagnetising wand. I believe that I still have one, and it seems you can still get them from Ebay or similar. You move the tip of the demagnetiser close to the device to be demagnetised, then move it slowly away. The idea is to create smaller and smaller magnetising loops in the magnetisable material, until the residual magnetism is near to zero. You may have to move it all around such a large device, and/or try a few times. Test by powering up the inverter from off. If that doesn't work, replace the part. If you're not prepared to try this, have the inverter repaired. I've never had this error, so I've never tried this remedy.

[coulomb]

Can the ICC software manage my PIPs for charging the Pylontech batteries using the modified firmware, or should i make my own scripts to manage the charging.

I believe that ICC can or soon might be interfacing directly to the Pylontech CAN or RS232 bus.

Check this thread on the PowerForum (I didn't find out whether ICC can talk to the Pylontechs directly yet with a quick search), or ask there. I don't use either Pylontech batteries or ICC.

[Emblema]

15 panels IBC SOLAR PolySol 265W ZX4 Inverter 5KVA (MPP Solar pip4048 model november 2016 Fw 72.90 - 4.12), 8 batteries AGM 400AH (48V)


If anybody help me...

Thanks a lot

Out of interest, did you install the SCC Firmware 4.12 yourself?

No.

[coulomb]

... when it rains the panels get wet and nothing happens, they continue to work well. The morning after, when the sunlight starts the panels do not start ...

That doesn't sound like an inverter problem to me. My suggestion is that water is leaking into some junction box or roof-top isolator, and it taking some time to reach wherever it causing problems. That would explain why you have solar production during the rain (water hasn't yet reached the problem area).

For about ten days, the batteries are no longer in floating mode but remain in CV mode.
Could it be connected to problem 1?

Yes, this could be related to your first problem, as you start solar production later. But that only explains the first day, I think.

It could also be many other things. It's winter now in the southern hemisphere (you don't say where you are from), so days are shorter, and the sun moves further north, which is less favourable for typical installations (panels flat against a low slope roof), so you may not have enough solar energy to fully charge the battery, and go from CV stage to float stage.