Marc Talloen's 3000 km EV trip

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weber
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Marc Talloen's 3000 km EV trip

Post by weber » Tue, 28 Apr 2015, 22:54

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Post by coulomb » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 03:45

Wow! The Telsa 85 kWh pack really does bring a new level to EV driving. Weber and I have dreamed about doing trips as long as that, but over at least two weeks, not 5 days!

I'm a little surprised that the Tesla 3-phase charger requires a neutral. Surely they could just balance the phase currents and not need a neutral at all. But that might be a tricky juggling act, especially when starting and stopping. (Assuming that the three internal chargers operate phase to neutral, as opposed to phase to phase.) [ Edit: I should know better than that: surely a 3-phase charger never needs a neutral. ]

That photo with all the Teslas lined up by colours was very impressive.

Well done, Marc!
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 28 Apr 2015, 18:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jonescg » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 04:32

My understanding was that the onboard charger was a 3-phase charger, and the 'dual' charger Tesla simply has two of these in parallel (but limited by settings). The Neutral is there to allow single phase 240 V charging.

Something like the Brusa NLG667 22 kW charger: http://www.brusa.eu/en/products/energy/ ... arger.html   Which I very much want Image

Although to be honest Tesla's onboard charger arrangement is a bit of a mystery.
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Post by coulomb » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 04:57

jonescg wrote: My understanding was that the onboard charger was a 3-phase charger... The Neutral is there to allow single phase 240 V charging.

I wasn't thinking clearly when I made that post. Surely with a 3-phase charger there is nowhere to connect the neutral. So why not provide a 4-pin (3 lines plus earth) plug? I assume a 4-pin plug will go into a 5-pin socket, so a 4-pin plug will work with both 4-pin sockets and 5-pin sockets.

As Marc found out, not all 3-phase outlets have neutrals. It just seems that the neutral pin needlessly limits the customer's options. Unless the single phase plugs use the same cable and plug (i.e. for single phase charging, you use an adapter that needs the 5-pin plug).
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Post by jonescg » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 05:04

I think in Australia 5 pin plugs are far more common than 4 or 3, which tend to be for large milling machines or the like. And the Clipsal series of 3 phase outlets are current specific - 5 pin 32 A will only take 5 pin 32 A plugs. Ditto for smaller currents and pin formats.

At least with the Mennekes connector the Tesla can accept single phase 240 V supplies, as well as 415 V three phase supplies (where the neutral is probably left dangling in the breeze). It really is a superior connector for Australia...
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Marc Talloen's 3000 km EV trip

Post by lesmando » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 15:01

The Mennekes Keba units I buy off Gabz has the 3 phases, neutral and earth. But I am not an electrical engineer, so no idea what the car will use, but all are available if it needed it.

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Post by alexeiw123 » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 18:56

I met with Marc on this trip, helped him to source a 3 phase charge point in PMQ. Nice guy doing a truly groundbreaking trip.
Nice car too (duh). His portable 3 phase connector he'd sourced from denmark (i think that's what he said) was brilliant.

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Post by MDK » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 20:58

jonescg wrote: My understanding was that the onboard charger was a 3-phase charger, and the 'dual' charger Tesla simply has two of these in parallel (but limited by settings). The Neutral is there to allow single phase 240 V charging.

Although to be honest Tesla's onboard charger arrangement is a bit of a mystery.


Tesla's onboard chargers aren't true "3phase" chargers - they don't connect at 415V phase to phase, rather they are a set of three single phase chargers, each connecting between one phase and Neutral at 240V.

If you have the optional "dual charger" in reality you have two sets of three chargers, with each phase connected to two sub-chargers in parallel.

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Post by coulomb » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 21:25

MDK wrote: Tesla's onboard chargers aren't true "3phase" chargers - they don't connect at 415V phase to phase, rather they are a set of three single phase chargers, each connecting between one phase and Neutral at 240V.

Huh. I thought that would be a lot more electronics. But maybe there is some sort of advantage to buying or making a large quantity of identical chargers. Or maybe it makes charging from single phase easier.

Thanks for the clarification.

Ironically, that makes my initial post (where I said I wasn't thinking clearly Image ) the more correct.
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Post by Johny » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 21:55

I'm kind amazed that there wasn't smoke when three single phase chargers were connected between phase and a common point in the middle. Any variation would get lots of voltage across just one of them.
I'm guessing that there is a safety system at play.

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Post by weber » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 22:27

Surely the fact they they are just single phase chargers is why Marc writes that he had to "make sure that the socket is appropriately wired with 5 wires including the neutral".
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Post by Johny » Fri, 01 May 2015, 13:07

At one stage he encountered a 5 pin socket where the neutral wasn't connected. I guess he may have checked before plugging in.

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Post by coulomb » Fri, 01 May 2015, 13:43

Johny wrote: At one stage he encountered a 5 pin socket where the neutral wasn't connected. I guess he may have checked before plugging in.

No, that's where he physically could not plug in; it was a 4-pin socket with no neutral "hole" for the neutral pin to fit into. That's when the owner of the socket kindly called in an electrician at short notice to wire in a 5-pin socket, and run new wiring to include the neutral conductor. Amazing service, perhaps that's how you missed it. (My mind rebels against the image of that sort of extreme good luck and good will happening to me.)
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Post by Johny » Fri, 01 May 2015, 14:01

coulomb wrote:No, that's where he physically could not plug in; it was a 4-pin socket with no neutral "hole" for the neutral pin to fit into. That's when the owner of the socket kindly called in an electrician at short notice to wire in a 5-pin socket,...
Yes, I agree that my luck (or charisma) doesn't allow for that - but he did encounter a 5 pin with no neutral:
"Next we were guided to a third place that had a 5 pin socket but guess…Murphy strikes again…it wasn’t wired with 5 wires!".

That's the one where 3 single phase chargers joining to air in the middle would worry me.

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Post by weber » Fri, 01 May 2015, 15:48

Johny wrote: At one stage he encountered a 5 pin socket where the neutral wasn't connected. I guess he may have checked before plugging in.

Yes. That's my reading. It would have been easy to check with a multimeter or a single-phase device connected between one phase and neutral.
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Post by weber » Fri, 01 May 2015, 15:54

That checklist from Mat Petersen that is unreadable as an image, can be found here.
http://modelsaustralia.tumblr.com/tagged/Tesla-Model-S
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