Highway charging Network Netherlands

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marty11
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Post by marty11 »

Wow.. like this plan..

http://www.abb.com/cawp/seitp202/cb7297 ... 7759e.aspx

Charging available "Fastned to supply chargers to more than 200 electric vehicle fast-charging stations in the Netherlands, bringing an EV fast charger within 50 kilometers of all of the country’s 16.7 million inhabitants.

Each of the more than 200 Fastned stations along Dutch highways will be equipped with several multi-standards fast chargers, such as the 50 kilowatt (kW) Terra 52 and Terra 53 models, capable of charging electric vehicles in 15-30 minutes. The first ABB Terra fast chargers are due to be delivered in September 2013. Construction of the Fastned stations, which will have solar canopies, is expected to be completed by 2015. "

Now for Australia! Image
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Post by acmotor »

The 50km distribution is interesting but didn't Japan have 10x that number (2,000) fast charging stations more than a year ago ? or does ABB block .jp URLs Image

So 200 stations planned with how many chargers at each station ?
Lets hope 10 or more .... but then half a megawatt peak power per station.
If say 10 x 24 x 2 = 480 full charges per day, though TOD and SOC dependent. x 200 stations = 96,000 EVs per day charged in a country of 10,000,000 vehicles. A good start though. Hey, we have at least ummm 4 FCs in Oz. Some are even workers.

It is that 50km that makes the difference. Google map shows my nearest fast charger at the moment is 2970km away. Image
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Post by jonescg »

Your nearest fast charger is only a voided warranty away Image
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Post by Adverse Effects »

jonescg wrote: Your nearest fast charger is only a voided warranty away Image


Image Image Image Image Image
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Post by acmotor »

Yep Image

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Post by coulomb »

marty11 wrote: Charging available "Fastned to supply chargers to more than 200 electric vehicle fast-charging stations in the Netherlands, bringing an EV fast charger within 50 kilometers of all of the country’s 16.7 million inhabitants.
...
Now for Australia! Image

Wow, 200 stations covers the country at at maximum of 50 km distance.

Let's imagine a rectangular grid of chargers in Australia, at 70.7 km spacing, so you are at most ~ 50 km from any one (if in the middle of the square, and the chargers are in the corners). The 70.7 km square has an area of 5,000 km^2; the total area of Australia is some 7,700,000 km^2, that would require 1540 such squares, so about that number of chargers. 7.7 times as many as the Netherlands, for about 22/16 ~= 1.4x the population. That's not too crazy, perhaps. And you could save a lot of stations if you didn't want to populate the deserts with them. You could also save some stations using a hexagonal grid (but a square grid is slightly easier maths).

Mind you, the Netherlands is only 41,500 km^2, so the same 70.7 km square grid would service them with only nine stations! 200 is a luxury Image

[ Edit: added chargers are in the corners ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sat, 23 Nov 2013, 14:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by coulomb »

coulomb wrote: You could also save some stations using a hexagonal grid (but a square grid is slightly easier maths).

Geek warning Image
A hexagon fitting into a 50 km diameter circle has an area of about 6,500 km^2, so we could cover Australia's 7,700,000 km^2 with 1185 such hexagons. That's a saving of 355 stations. So now only 6x the number of stations they are planning in the Netherlands.

The stations (imagining them in the middle of the hexagon) would be 100 km apart.

The Netherlands' 41,500 km^2 could however be covered with just six such hexagons, so just 6 stations.

Of course, if you want to be a maximum of 50 km away by road, not as the crow flies, then that's a different matter, and more stations would be needed.

[ Edit: added 100 km spacing, and caveat re how the crow flies. ]
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Post by marty11 »

haha well worked out Image

Now how about a Highway Charging Network Australia as a title?

Would service stations be the start? I see some shopping centres having a few, but some only have a power point as well. IF you wanted to stay for 3-4 hours, a shopping centre might be ok, but if you were travelling 5-6 hours, and wanted to pick up a hew kwh's , whether in a BEV or EREV, maybe service stations are a better fit? They would sure benefit from extra restaurant / cafe revenue! The longer the wait for "Juice for the Car" the more people will spend..

How about a lobby letter to the NRMA , from AEVA?
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Post by marty11 »

And I just spoke to an Estonian customer, here at work.. (he noticed the Volt was on charge), and mentioned they were heading to 300 charging stations in his country,

Here is a link to 165 charging stations in Estonia..

http://estonianworld.com/technology/est ... g-network/

Further googling found 200 stations. .so you might regard comments about numbers with a little caution..

The customer told me he is thinking about an EREV, Ampera, so he can use EV only in Estonia, but for further travel to neighbouring countries use the Extended Range generator .

He said a Nissan Leaf was also an option, but a plug- in prius was too short a range. His preference was an Ampera.
Last edited by marty11 on Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 04:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Johny »

Hexagons work well for radio coverage but not for highway controlled or frequent roadway use.
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Post by marty11 »

so here is a great video of the Fast Ned Netherlands Quick Charging Network.

Watch the Video. Be warned its a long video.. fascinating!

What do you think?

Fast Ned Fast Charge
Enjoy
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Post by g4qber »

Bp, shell and caltex seem to be the main players in the outback.
I found this to be the case on my trip up north last year.

There are 2 bps in Perth that have solar on their roof from hmmm 20 years ago. I wonder if they will be replacing panels soon? Bp pulled out of solar production a while ago.

Bps are almost apple-like. They have bp ultimate allegedly the best fuel and they tend to be the most expensive.

Perhaps united petroleum could be like tesla. They have e85, e10 and p100. Something that no other station seems to have.

Perhaps Coles and woollies and iga could also get in on the market?
Last edited by g4qber on Sat, 07 Dec 2013, 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by marty11 »

found it interesting in that the obvious choice is almost counter - intuitive.

You might be forgiven that Petrol stations would be against having BEV's pull up at their locations.

The fact that they have permission, seemingly Government backed, to have access for an initial 15years, to 200 out of 240 petrol stations there is quite amazing.

The stats of 30,000 users within 3 years is ambitious for sure. (Thats their stated ROI breakeven point. )

The Choice of location of the EV charging is fantastic.

Imagine if you could charge your EV every 50 or even 90 kms here.

Would you pay 10 Euros in Australia for that ?   I probably would, knowing I was helping them get on their feet, as well as using their service..
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Post by g4qber »

hope I don't jinx this,

I would pay the same amount of money to travel with electricity as I would with petrol, but not more, as is the case with most Eco stuff initially, in the knowledge that electricity is generally cheaper and cleaner.

Eventually expecting the price to come down as more EVs come on the market.

One would pay for amount of energy consumed
Eg worst case scenario 47.7366 cents per kWh during peak times.
http://www.synergy.net.au/docs/SmartPower_brochure.pdf

But this could be alleviated by PVs as Thomas B has shown.

Perhaps price could change according to solar conditions?

The main thing is that we need to do rather than just talk.

It is really great how they changed the rules about not having a food and fuel outlet in the same location at the same time.

Also saw the chademo motorcycle, amazing.

one would need to choose the right vehicle for the job.
Use a Tesla Roadster (or future LEAF) to get to Bunbury in one go.
Roadster has 53kWh battery
generally it is about 16kWh per 80km, with HVAC.
http://www.evcorporation.com.au/product-2/
RACWA thinks that the imiev has a range of 80km.
http://rac.com.au/news-community/enviro ... real-world
sorry to mention the 'n' word, but they have good data - 15kWh/100km - but without HVAC, so 16kWh/80km with HVAC sounds resonable.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Non-P ... -and-Cars/

else need to add 30 mins to journey time in an imiev? 2x 15 min charges; using circontrol stats. Weird how circontrol seemingly can charge faster than 30 mins.
http://youtu.be/OKtwZ10__9E

this may blow out to 60 mins - 2x 30 mins charge to 80%.
http://youtu.be/pqcqdbrfOzA
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/en/vehi ... /features/

Eg to get to Bunbury in an imiev at freeway speeds and with HVAC may require minimum of 2 stops at 70 and 140 km.
200km - Joondalup to Bunbury.

or take the train.
this would be a Clarkson vs public transport challenge.
the train to Bunbury on runs at certain times; once in the morning and once in the evening.

Last edited by g4qber on Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by g4qber »

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Post by Shirker »

I suspect there are many more than that. This one on GE Hwy in Ascot springs to mind, thanks to an excess number of airport taxi rides:
http://www.gps-data-team.info/whereis/BP_Connect_Ascot

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Post by acmotor »

Yeah, those have been there for 20 years.
36 x 140W panels?, good open location though not optimum 32 deg north, as is often dominated by the available roof.
About 30kWh per day.... Perhaps enough to power one of the 6 aircon units on the roof of the BP shop.
Not much left for EV charging.
Good on BP for being movers in PV development. It is a bit like Kodak producing digital cameras. Hang on, what happened to Kodak ? Image

The problem with an existing service station for fast charger location is what to do while you wait ?

Edit: auto complete doesn't mean auto understand Image
Last edited by acmotor on Thu, 30 Jan 2014, 18:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jonescg »

Sniff petrol?
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Post by acmotor »

Image or to keep Chris happy, an exercise bike and generator helping the fast charger out.
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Post by g4qber »

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/108 ... -city-says

Fast charging / natural gas / hydrogen at new/renovated gas stations
Some believe in putting fast charges where needed
Amazing how one poster has 2 leafs and 2 teslas

Libraries and shopping centres including Woolworths and Coles express stations that are already part of a shopping centre. Perhaps we could approach Coles and woolies to install fast chargers.

http://www.teslamotors.com/it_IT/forum/ ... lectric-ca

Shopping centres seem to be prime candidates
Most ev owners won't want to smell "napalm" oops petrol in the morning.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0002961/quotes


Have some tea while charging - chademo
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1584 ... -this-year
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Post by g4qber »

hmm when is this bug going to be fixed?
<a href="http://www.fastned.nl/en" rel="nofollow">http://www.fastned.nl/en</a>

fastned app
https://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/fastned/id867402071

http://www.fastned.nl/en

9 stations built
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