FIA Formula E Championship

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EV2Go
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Post by EV2Go » Mon, 15 Sep 2014, 22:20

Sorry Sutho mixed messages I was taking about the sound from the Formula E cars.

The sound isn't wasted on me :D but agree times are a changing and we will get used to different sounds over time.
Coulomb Racing wrote: I personally believe that Formula E would be better off running two or even four 10 lap races at full speed than trying to conserve power. They could use the second car for the second race while fast charging the first car for the 3rd race etc.

A lot more high speed racing for fans and draws it out over the day so more value for money. They could do with a bit more noise but again if they were running flat out for 10 laps it'd be more impressive and you'd hear and see even more lock ups and sideways action.


I'm with you Coulomb do like the V8s and have several races and an overall round winner.

Only thing would be no reverse grid as there isn't a big enough performance difference to make it to the front from the back, so every race would be from the previous finishing position.
Last edited by EV2Go on Mon, 15 Sep 2014, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Thalass » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 19:41

I loved the race! That was a hell of a crash at the end. I do agree, though, that the series needs more rawness. The car swap was not as terrible as I thought it would be, but I still think a more traditional pitstop with battery swap would be better. Maybe have the race long enough to require two swaps, but only provide the teams with two battery packs per car. So after the first swap they have to fast-charge the original pack, then put it back in the car for the final section.
That way you'd have the drama of pit stops, EVs would look better, and fast charging technology would benefit from racing developement. And the cars could go harder and faster.

Really, that crash could well have been the best thing for the series at such an early stage. It was actually shown on the TV news! I doubt it would have got a mention otherwise.


I watched the race on youtube this morning. I suppose it's good that the race didn't receive much coverage: No spoilers! :P

I just found this reddit post regarding live streaming. Hopefully the next race will be more readily available. https://www.reddit.com/r/FormulaE/comme ... eams_help/

Edit: As much as I loved the FE race, Elmofo really does sound much better. Maybe one day there'll be an Elmofo FE team?
Last edited by Thalass on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 09:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:30

I am really in two minds about a quick battery change during a pit stop. I don't really like the idea of swapping out battery packs as that might give manufacturers the idea of going down that route instead of developing better battery technologies that go further.

The whole point of switching to electric for me is to regain independence from the system, if we starting relying on battery swapping places, we are no better off than a service station situation where we are held to ransom by the few.

The flip side of this is with quick change batteries, we could potentially see better racing. I would like to see unlimited swaps for batteries and tyres in a longer F1 length race. That way we can see the true potential not just another limiter on the sport like we have with fixed fuelling.

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Post by Coulomb Racing » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:38

Speed (and noise) attracts fans, fans attract advertisers and sponsors which gives teams more money to go even faster with.

Therefore given the lack of noise (a better noise needs to be worked on though), the emphasis needs to be on shorter but much faster races. Give teams a set amount of battery capacity but no weight limit on battery pack and no limit of controller or motor development and you'd see a huge improvement and investment in motor, controller and battery power density.

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Post by Coulomb Racing » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:38

Coulomb Racing wrote: Speed (and noise) attracts fans, fans attract advertisers and sponsors which gives teams more money to go even faster with.

Therefore given the lack of noise (a better noise needs to be worked on though), the emphasis needs to be on shorter but much faster races. Give teams a set amount of battery capacity but no weight limit on battery pack and no limit on controller or motor development and you'd see a huge improvement and investment in motor, controller and battery power density.
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Post by Coulomb Racing » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:39

Woops, tried to edit and somehow quoted myself.
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Post by Sutho » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:42

EV2Go wrote: The flip side of this is with quick change batteries, we could potentially see better racing. I would like to see unlimited swaps for batteries and tyres in a longer F1 length race. That way we can see the true potential not just another limiter on the sport like we have with fixed fuelling.


Or...do what we done and work in with the format of an existing race series.

This requires a rapid battery cooling method and a high powered fast charger to enable the car to be turned around in the standard "breaks" between races.

For the budget they have invested, they have taken the easy way out of a lot of the challenges posed with electric vehicle racing....such as running low drive power to conserve energy and prevent heat rise in motor, controllers and batteries....running 2 cars so they don't need to fast charge....a single race in a day in lieu of multiple races....etc.

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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:49

Yeah but can you really imagine a full field of cars trying to fast charge at the same time between events? Can anyone say power outage...

They are supposed to be the best of the best like F1, but we are seeing too many compromises to make them last. If heat is an issue have rounds and several already charged battery packs. Charging the batteries is no more part of the event as putting fuel in the car, so I don't want to take the focus off the racing aspect.
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Post by Sutho » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:54

EV2Go wrote: Yeah but can you really imagine a full field of cars trying to fast charge at the same time between events? Can anyone say power outage...


Aha....exactly! That's why they need to use a DC to DC Fast Charger where all teams bring their own power to the track in their own storage packs. These storage packs should be charged from renewable sources.
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Post by Sutho » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 20:55

And by the way....we have that technology ready to go! Image

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Post by Johny » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:01

The battery pack is pretty impressive. This article explains some of their reasoning.
http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2014 ... ttery.aspx

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Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:08

Formula E team pulls up and starts to set up there kit

pull the cars out
set up the trailers
go through all the tires and parts
check DC storage pack charge level

SET UP 4 WIND TURBINES AND 700Mt2 SOLAR PANELS and plug it on to the DC pack

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Post by jonescg » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:09

I just think it's great that us little guys have actually got a jump start on the big guys. I've no doubt that they are looking at what we've done and tested on the track and are using that in their machines.
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Post by Sutho » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:12

Adverse Effects wrote: SET UP 4 WIND TURBINES AND 700Mt2 SOLAR PANELS and plug it on to the DC pack


Nice....but no need.

They charge the storage packs off-site prior to the events and then "dump" it into the cars as required. The storage packs just need to be sized to allow the required number of recharges.

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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:16

Sutho wrote:
Adverse Effects wrote: SET UP 4 WIND TURBINES AND 700Mt2 SOLAR PANELS and plug it on to the DC pack


Nice....but no need.

They charge the storage packs off-site prior to the events and then "dump" it into the cars as required. The storage packs just need to be sized to allow the required number of recharges.
Yep but then you have the problem of some teams charging their packs with higher octane electricity :D

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Post by Sutho » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:18

jonescg wrote: I just think it's great that us little guys have actually got a jump start on the big guys. I've no doubt that they are looking at what we've done and tested on the track and are using that in their machines.


I know that they have Chris. We were apparently a topic of discussion at one of the FIA meetings in Europe where they were talking about future standards for EVs in racing.

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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:18

jonescg wrote: I just think it's great that us little guys have actually got a jump start on the big guys. I've no doubt that they are looking at what we've done and tested on the track and are using that in their machines.
I would question who are the big guys and who are the little guys. I see your bike pulling 223kph on the straight are they doing that yet?

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Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:21

i was kind of kidding but i do see 1 big problem

transporting a DC storage pack (times number of teams)

they go nuts if you send a 10AH 3S lipo so what will you do with XXXGw/h of storage?

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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:28

Adverse Effects wrote: i was kind of kidding but i do see 1 big problem

transporting a DC storage pack (times number of teams)

they go nuts if you send a 10AH 3S lipo so what will you do with XXXGw/h of storage?


Yep that had crossed my mind as well.

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Post by Sutho » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:30

Adverse Effects wrote: i was kind of kidding but i do see 1 big problem

transporting a DC storage pack (times number of teams)

they go nuts if you send a 10AH 3S lipo so what will you do with XXXGw/h of storage?


They got their in-car Lithium pack UL certified so that it can fly allowing them to fly the cars around as required. They would just need to do the same with the storage pack.


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Post by jonescg » Wed, 17 Sep 2014, 21:32

Sutho wrote:
jonescg wrote: I just think it's great that us little guys have actually got a jump start on the big guys. I've no doubt that they are looking at what we've done and tested on the track and are using that in their machines.


I know that they have Chris. We were apparently a topic of discussion at one of the FIA meetings in Europe where they were talking about future standards for EVs in racing.


What ever we do, we must not let them cap the upper voltage limit to 500 V. Voltron is performing flawlessly at 700 V top of charge, and it's the safest bike to ride from an electrical point of view. Hell, you can ride Voltron in the pissing rain and you won't get hurt. The original TTXGP rules allowed 700 V so I built to that number and it's delivering win after win.

I can't believe the Moto-E and the American E-Roadracing series have capped their upper limits to some arbitrary limit...

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Post by Kieran » Thu, 18 Sep 2014, 19:19

I don't really know anything about the technical stuff, but I inderstand that the first year uses identical equipment, then they go open slather in the following years. I suppose this is to avoid putting fans off from technical teething problems spoiling good, close racing. I suspect there are already enough doubters and they don't want to give them ammunition in the form of lots of DNFs.

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Post by EV2Go » Fri, 21 Nov 2014, 01:22

For anyone interested in this series the next race is in a few days.

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Post by PlanB » Sat, 22 Nov 2014, 14:49

My sibling the petrol head is at http://snowymountains1000.com.au/ this weekend. Someone should take an EV racer there next year & give the fossil burners some competition.

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Post by EV2Go » Sun, 23 Nov 2014, 16:33

For those wanting to watch the race on YouTube

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