WA Electric Highways!

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jonescg
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WA Electric Highways!

Post by jonescg » Tue, 24 Dec 2013, 01:30

Perth AEVA member Patti McBain is a hardworking volunteer from the Insight Foundation, and one of the many projects she has been working on was an Electric Highway from Perth to Margaret River. The idea is to get a few fast DC charge stations build along the route so anyone with an EV of 100 km range can drive all the way to the limestone coast / Margaret River region in a day.

We have a 'white paper' drafted up already, and I will link to it in a little while once I remove the typos and add some more content.

We are seeking ideas for financing the first electric highway, and this means talking to the right people in the right places. I don't know many such people, but others do and your connections are what will really help the project come to fruition.

The Electric Highway has a reserved website domain, which we can get behind and contribute to. Since there is enthusiasm to get a similar project up and going in the Sydney area, we should try to keep the content broad and incorporate all Australian EV drivers and supporters.

Will post the google docs link in a minute...
Hope this works: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8UJ8a ... sp=sharing

Fixed :)

Chris
Last edited by jonescg on Mon, 23 Dec 2013, 16:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gabz » Tue, 24 Dec 2013, 02:45

link failed you open the document then click share then click change select public or those with link and copy the link at the top of the page.

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Post by jonescg » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 01:45

Okay, so we have decided to go big. Real big.

For just over $1 million we can connect the entire south-west of WA with an Electric Highway. This means placing about 25 DC fast chargers in key towns along our most popular routes. Key roads include:

Forrest Highway/Bussel Highway:
Connects Perth with Margaret River / Augusta

Southwestern Highway:
Connects Perth with Bridgetown, Northcliffe, Walpole and Denmark

Great Southern Highway:
Connects Perth with Toodyay, York, Brookton and Narrogin

The following map includes all of the towns which could have a DC fast charger, and how far away they are from the next town. There are some 105 km stretches in the mix, but there is usually a small township somewhere in between where you could plausibly put a kWh in. Alternatively, drive a bit slower to ensure you get to your next destination. Better yet, buy an EV which can do 100 km at 100 km/h Image.

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Updated and improved!   Again...

Each site will have a single, 50 kW DC fast charger, with provisions for more chargers should demand grow (i.e. triple conduit, bigger cement slabs etc.) and several level 2 AC chargers wired for 32 A single phase charging. The smarts in your EV charger and/or EVSE should know when to ramp up the amps. Where a transformer is required, a 100 kW transformer should be sought so that a second charger may be installed should the demand arise. Better yet, run them off grid :)

We want "Local Champions" to push the case for a charger in these towns; ideally someone who lives or pays rates in the shire. They would be the personal contact for any enquiries and focal point of enthusiasm. Since we're going to a community funding agency, this really needs to be driven from the ground level.

We also need businesses and councils to promise a cash commitment. The likes of Mitsubishi and Nissan are warming to the idea of a charging network, and their support could just get the grant over the line. Likewise, any electricians who are supportive of EVs could offer discounted installation costs. Our Local Champion would liaise with local sparkies to ensure all expenditure is kept local.

Lets make it happen!
Last edited by jonescg on Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by zeva » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 02:07

Fantastic idea! Happy to do what I can to help. Let's chat about it next time we catch up.
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Post by acmotor » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 17:42

Great ! Thinking big.

I do believe it is bad promotion of EVs and poor road safety to be encouraging folk to travel at more than 10% less than a posted speed limit. Where is your 100 at 100 EV Chris ?

Add Bindoon or Bullsbrook to the list, but then I guess there will always be wish lists. You are right, get that SW covered first.
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Post by jonescg » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 17:52

Well all of the 100+ stretches have a small town between (Cranbrook, Darkan, The Lakes etc.) so you can still hammer it most of the way and have a stop in between.

My '200 at 100' EV is waiting on it's owner to get a job Image And to hurry up and finish his '30 at 230' E-moto Image.

If you reckon you can convince anyone in the Bindoon/Bullsbrook area that a fast charger is a great addition to their establishment, go for it! We probably won't get an endorsement from every place on the map, so best to cast a wide net. We will really need this to be driven at the local level, so a familiar face will help.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 17:55

Where is your 100 at 100 EV Chris ?

I think the tesla model S is the only one that could do it in Australia at the moment.

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Post by Gabz » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 20:12

how many people are you connecting what are we talking population wise ?

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Post by jonescg » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 20:20

Southwest WA is where 96% of the population lives, so about 2 Million.

Mandurah, Bunbury, Albany, Collie, Manjimup and the stretch from Toodyay to Brookton make up the bulk of the population. I'll have to get in touch with the DoT on the number of EVs on the road in WA, but we do know the figure is growing.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 21:43

728 plug in ev not counting the small number of home builds. Australia wide.

Kurt

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Post by g4qber » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 22:45

What would 100km at 110 kmh entail in terms of energy use?

Or perhaps we can put a sign on our EVs as per trucks / caravans which that are speed limited to 90kmh
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Post by jonescg » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 23:31

Take your i up the freeway at 100 km/h and see how far you get.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 23:39

It depends on so much. Roads are never flat , wind is never the same. Anything from 100whr km to 170whr km for my 40km stretch of reasonably flat freeway I do often.

Kurt

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Post by jonescg » Sun, 19 Jan 2014, 23:45

Sounds about right. 170 Wh/km * 200 km = 34 kWh, which is pretty much a "full tank" on my future conversion (37 kWh). Anything less is a bonus.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 01:09

34kwh most of only use 80% of that as a DOD rule. so 34kwh - 6.8kwh = 27.2kwh at 170whr km it gives a 160km range. At 110kph it could be 10% less perhaps 130km range.

I will do some more detailed tests and log a few 100 and 110kmh runs over 50km distance and you can just double it.

Kurt

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Post by jonescg » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 02:03

I've already subtracted from the 37 kWh - but I was using 90% as my cut-off figure. And 170 Wh/km is clearly at the higher end. I suspect the CRX will have better Wh/km than the iMiEV.

But who cares. The point is, we have options if we space them every 50-100 km. And I still haven't built my EV yet.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 02:37

Yes I'm rooting for the old 80s Honda I wouldn't be surprised if it was more efficient than a Imiev especially at speed where its aerodynamic advantages would play a big roll.

I'm happy to trolling along at what ever speed it takes to get to the destinations when I am pushing the max distance I just take back roads. Not often do I see trips that are 100kph 100% of the way.



Kurt

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 04:32

What the real world experience is saying is that perhaps 50km separation is required. It is not good planning to drive 100km to find the FC broken or some 85kWh model S plugged in for the afternoon.
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Post by jonescg » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 05:03

Based on the current map, you have all but the longest stretches covered with a safe margin.

We could put more in, but that would make for over 30 FC units. Not out of the ordinary - I'd say you could add one to any leg in the map above over 90 km. There has to be a town there, which is not always the case; Walpole to Northcliffe is all forest.

At ~$30k each, and about ~$7k installation (assuming no transformers are needed), we're looking at $1.1M. Add to the mix about a hundred 7 kW AC charge points and you're looking at about $1.4M. I suspect we'll need a transformer at about half of the sites, so pretty much double that number. Getting a bit out there...

I think that as long as people can access a charger by modifying their route/planning their day/going a little slower/stopping half way for a minor top-up, our initiative will be well received. If people get jack of it, they should band together and pay for their own charger. Or save their pennies and buy a Model S. Cause then they know they can make it to each point.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 07:55

You have gone one extreme to the other Chris.
First you were talking about one FC now a big project. I applaud both but could see the value mostly in the original Perth to Margaret River plan, properly supported with FCs at no more than 50km spacing as being the most likely to be supported and the best demonstration to get the ball rolling. IMHO

Please stop asking EV owners to compromise in speed or time. If we keep presenting the EV as the poor cousin then the FC exercise will fail. Once again IMHO. Call the Perth to MR stage 1 of the big plan by all means but do it right. EV owners are saying what they see is right for them to use the highway. Ontheroadium vs Notyetmadium.

Call me conservative and skeptical but I'd doubt the system is ready to put up $1M or probably twice that in one of the least EV friendly countries in the world. I'd rather support a no compromise EV charging highway as a demonstration, that will get used, for 1/10 the cost.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 15:33

I was just thinking about the cost vs number of ev's on the road. Lets say that WA has 1/4 of Australia's production EV's that's roughly 250 cars (I think that's actually a generous allocation). If your spending one million on a fast charger network then that's $4000 each car.

I'm not sure what to make of that number but it dose put some things into perspective. Some might say that $4000 is less than one would need to spend to build a personal EV range extending device, Additional battery's ,generator trailer or similar.

Others would just see it as a lot of money for each car. Yet it wouldn't take a very big numbers of cars to bring that cost per car down. If there was 1000 cars in WA in the future then it's only $1000 per car. at 1000 cars It's already at the stage where it could be privately funded.

Personally would pay $1000 if it was going to ensure a few fast chargers around my area. I would say most people who purchase a new EV would feel the same.

do we just need the numbers and then collectively the EV owners will have the power to fund there own charging highways.

Kurt
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Post by Gabz » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 15:51

there is some advantages in staying with the same number of Fast chargers but only half the distance covered. creating a highly redundant, and more overlapping system of fast chargers will in the end create a better EV experience for people. with the availability of a single charger will not bring the system to a grinding halt. I can only see 1 or 2 nodes/towns on your map you could remove and the trip still be viable.

If your are successful in getting funds you'll be the example to the rest of the country, so it's important that user experience be the best quality. even if the range is limited.


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Post by jonescg » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 16:08

Perth to Margs was the most popular route. But it's not the only route. We might not get another shot at rolling out big EV projects in this state, so we might as well ask for the big money to do the whole south-west. The map above simply highlights the many towns which can plausibly be accessed by an EV. We're trying to ascertain which of these towns are supportive. This might only be three places - it could be all of them. We're yet to pound the pavement and find out. I will add the other small towns to the map, so there are no three-digit distances.

The map I generated above can guide us to their placement based on the popularity of various routes. If we ask all 32 locations and only 10 are supportive, we'll find out which ones make a route and base the grant on that. If none are supportive we'll just give up and drive petrol cars.

I will admit, Western Australia has a problem with thinking big. Look at the Bell Tower. A fine example of "Lets try do something defining and out there, but not too bold or brash" Our politicians, businesses and notorieties would rather we followed closely behind someone else who makes the bold decisions. Being the types who will decide on big public works like this, they would totally baulk at the idea of spending a couple of million on a small selection of already fairly wealthy West Australians. I believe that this thinking is wrong, and not the kind that will help us kick ourselves of petrol. But I am also trying to be realistic about out prospects of winning a $2M+ grant. We can only try our best.

As an interesting aside;
In the 70's, the Nullarbor Plain was finally connected by means of government funded petrol stations, roughly one every 200 km or so (Nundroo and Nullarbor in particular). Other stations popped up afterwards, but the government wasn't going to build more than it needed to.
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 16:10

We'll of course.   numbers.
I would think the number of FC equipped (CHAdeMO) EVs would be less than 20 at present in WA.
That makes it $50,000 to $100,000 per EV investment for this $1 or $2M project.
There is the whole question of FC approval for conversions to deal with too.

Not trying to be a kill joy, just realistic.

Agreed Kurt, if it was as simple as $1,000 investment per EV owner I too would have my cheque book out.

There is more chance of a 3 times increase in battery capacity making the FCs redundant anyway ?

Look, if it was up to me, I'd have spent the millions already on the FCs to support the future vision of EVs.
Perhaps though $2M would be better spent as a $10,000 subsidy on the purchase of 200 more EVs in the first place ?
EVs by large work without FCs. But FCs simply don't work without EVs.

All that aside, Chris, go for it. I will use the FCs !!

Edit: the auto complete has a mind of its own !
Last edited by acmotor on Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 06:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 20 Jan 2014, 17:58

You are right though, the $2M is just money, selling the idea is the real challenge. Image
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