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woody
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Post by woody » Wed, 22 Oct 2014, 13:45

What is the definition of "Works"?

Who decides if it "Works"?

I nominate Coulomb. (No pressure buddy)
Happy to second anyone with over 500 posts.
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Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 22 Oct 2014, 19:02

this was mentioned and confirmed in a earlier post

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Post by weber » Wed, 22 Oct 2014, 21:11

woody wrote: What is the definition of "Works"?

Who decides if it "Works"?

I nominate Coulomb. (No pressure buddy)
Happy to second anyone with over 500 posts.

I second the nomination of Coulomb and I nominate Woody as well. Image

Yes, I spelled out the criteria for success a couple of times above, prior to your post giving (your memory of) the Sydney position. My earlier criteria were originally given by acmotor. But since your post, I have also been championing the more specific criteria you gave, for preserving 3 classes of link:
inside forum to inside forum (cross links)
inside forum to outside forum (outward links)
outside forum to inside forum (inward links)

We currently believe we can preserve all three classes, although I note that you said "ideally" for the third class (inward links), so I take it the lack of these would not be a show-stopper. In fact these [edit: and crosslinks] were broken about a year ago when the WebWiz forum was moved to a different subdomain and users' calls for redirections were ignored.

In fact preserving inward links is the most difficult and cannot be done by gConverter. But gConverter will provide us with the necessary mappings of Topic ID and Post ID to allow us to implement this ourselves outside the forum software.

Rob Hills even thinks it may be possible to resurrect those old inward links that were broken by the earlier subdomain change. But no promises.
Last edited by weber on Wed, 22 Oct 2014, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 18:44

It's been a long time coming, but gConverter finally have a phpBB version of the forum that's worth looking at. So that we can compare the two, it's at the temporary domain:

http://forums.aeva.net.au    Notice ".net" instead of ".asn".

So please get to work and check your personal posts and favourite threads to see what still needs fixing. I note that you can't log into this version ("I forgot my password" wont work), and it is based on a snapshot from about 2 weeks ago. But whatever you find now, gConverter will attempt to fix, and add that fix to their conversion script, so that when we're happy with the result, they will then apply the same conversion script to one final snapshot of the WebWiz forum.

I remind you to make sure your email address is up-to-date in the existing WebWiz forum because the only way you will get access to your account in the final phpBB Forum is that you will be emailed a new password (which you can then change back to your old password if you want).

Please post any problems you find, to this thread. Please check that the problem hasn't already been posted by someone else, and please put each problem in its own paragraph, ending with two lines giving respectively the old and new (clickable) URLs of a single post that contains an example of the problem.

To obtain the URL of a specific post, as opposed to the page it happens to be on, you click on a small icon near the start of the post, which will move that post to the top of the window, then you copy the resulting URL from your browser and paste it into your new post to this thread. In WebWiz the icon is a pale blue dot. In phpBB it is a small white dog-eared-document icon. To make a URL clickable, simply surround it with
[ URL]...[/URL]
without the space, and with the actual URL in place of the "...".

For example, here are all those we already know about:

1. We need to preserve the authors of quotes. Every [ QUOTE=xxxx ] has apparently been changed to just [ QUOTE ]. Compare
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 127#p10127
http://www.forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic ... 9266#p9266

2. The following user information is no longer shown beside posts: Group, Location, Online status. Compare
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 9760#p9760
http://www.forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic ... 8900#p8900

3. Superscript "2"s and degree signs are preceded by an extraneous A-circumflex. Other non-7-bit characters are similarly corrupted. PhpBB is apparently failing to interpret two-byte UTF-8 sequences as such. Compare
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 159#p53159
http://www.forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic ... 068#p51068

4. In this post, a line break is inserted apparently at random, in the 6th-last paragraph, between the words "there" and "really".
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 835#p52835
http://www.forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic ... 744#p50744

5. At the end of posts that have been edited, the words "Edited by" are omitted and the following detail is jammed onto the end of the post with no space. [Thanks to Jeff Owen for that.]
viewtopic.php?p=53176&title=4springs-br ... 418#p53176
http://www.forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic ... 085#p51085

[ Edited Coulomb : added spaces around quote tags; conversion software doesn't know to ignore them when not at the start of line. Or whatever the distinction is.]
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 30 May 2017, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 19:03

It would be good to number these bug reports for ease of reference. I have edited my previous post to add the numbers.
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Post by rhills » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 19:16

Thanks Weber for this post and all the effort you've put into informing members about the forum conversion efforts.

This one's relatively trivial, but for the record, I'd like to add:

6: Forums are ordered differently on the two home pages:
index.php
http://www.forums.aeva.net.au/index.php

Cheers,

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Post by coulomb » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 19:49

weber wrote: 4. In this post, a line break is inserted apparently at random,
It seems it was taken from earlier, in one of the code boxes.
[Edit: this was weak humour. The problems are obviously not related.]
So:

8. In the first code box, many newlines are missing, e.g. between "service routine" and "jeq". Eight lines reduced to 1 or 2. Similar but not identical problems in the second code box.
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 835#p52835
http://www.forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic ... 744#p50744

The above links are the same as for Weber's point 4. Previously, I numbered it 4a. Now numbered 8, which happens to have been a deleted report.

Edit: in fact, most of the newlines are missing from the code boxes. Eight lines are reduced to 2 (or maybe one, if my screen was wide enough). Something similar has happened in the second code box.
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by coulomb » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 20:03

It's a bit hard to check things when the internal links don't work. I can change the ".net" to ".asn" to find the original post, and find the equivalent page on the new, but surely something major has failed in the translation to have the old style links.

Or is this something that can be fixed with some sort of giant translation table?

To formalise:

7. Cross links to posts are not working. These examples are what youy may call relative links:
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 80&start=1
http://forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic.php ... 4ca83c146a

First (and all other links) end up with a 404 error. Lovely and quick, I have to say. I hope it stays that quick under load.

Edit: oops, it's not all links. But it does include at least 95% of links on the MX-5 index thread (above). In those, I used a shortcut, removing part of the URL to save space and loading time.

Here is a piece of it, edited to defeat most of the BBcodes:

Battery Management System
[ URL=/forum_posts.asp?TID=980&PID=15479#15479" rel="nofollow]Veroboard prototype[ /URL ]
[ URL=/forum_posts.asp?TID=980&PID=17139#17139" rel="nofollow]Layout[ /URL ] and [ URL=/forum_posts.asp?TID=980&PID=17981#17981" rel="nofollow]BMS PCB prototype[ /URL ]

Note how the links start with "/forum_posts", and omit the "http://forums.aeva.asn.au" part.

If this is a hassle, I can fix it in one monumental edit. I could even do it before the big translation, if that would help. But if it's easy enough for the tanslater to do, that might pick up a few others that I and other authors have left.
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 10:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rhills » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 20:12

Hi Coulomb,

Re the links, I'd hoped they would convert them to "relative" links so they'd work properly regardless of what forum they were on. IOW, http://forums.aeva.net.au/blah..blah would simply become /blah..blah.

We may do this anyway as a global-search-and-replace after the conversion has been handed over. There's actually lots that can be done after the main conversion is completed, especially with things like this.

WRT speed, I'm actually hoping for further improvement, but we'll see how that pans out.

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Post by coulomb » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 20:21

Here is an internal link from someone else...

Edit. The original link was bad, so this is not a conversion issue.

Deleting this report (was #8).

Using report number (8) for what was previously called 4a.
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 11:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by coulomb » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 20:24

9. Search doesn't work.
index.php
http://forums.aeva.net.au/

This could be some problem to do with the .net verses .asn in the URL.
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 10:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rhills » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 20:29

The "Search" problem could also be because of "default" forum settings and the fact that we can't log in:
https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtop ... &t=1991395.
I will look at this later today and see if we can fix it via the forum settings. Have to go out for a few hours right now.

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Post by coulomb » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 20:45

10. Outgoing links to user profiles not working.
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 963#p26963
http://forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic.php ... 8df#p25383
"Working with Weber", clicking on "Weber" results in 404 page.
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 21:40

coulomb wrote:... surely something major has failed in the translation to have the old style links.
I get the impression gConverter have never done a WebWiz to phpBB conversion before, or perhaps not one with a MSAccess database (as opposed to xxSQL). So rather than "failed", I'd say "not yet succeeded". Image They need our help.
Or is this something that can be fixed with some sort of giant translation table?
...
Note how the links start with "/forum_posts", and omit the "http://forums.aeva.asn.au" part.

If this is a hassle, I can fix it in one monumental edit. I could even do it before the big translation, if that would help. But if it's easy enough for the translater to do, that might pick up a few others that I and other authors have left.

I described, in an earlier post in this thread, the 3 broad categories of links we are concerned with and how some of them are likely to be treated. Namely "incoming", "outgoing" and "cross" links (the terms "internal" and "external" are ambiguous with regard to origin vs destination, or both).

And fixing incoming links will indeed involve "some sort of giant translation table" that gConverter will provide. But outgoing links are already working fine and gConverter should be able to translate cross links for us (assuming these links are currently working in the WebWiz forum).

Cross links can be further categorised as "absolute" (beginning with "http:/") or "relative", and they can be categorised orthogonal to that, as "forum", "thread", "page", "post", "user-profile" etc. links.

There is no need to edit any links that are currently working in the WebWiz forum.

But it would be good to be as specific as possible at to what type of links a given bug report refers to, and also to spell out, if possible, how we would like them translated.
Last edited by weber on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 11:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jonescg » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 21:57

I notice there is a members section at the top - I trust this is only accessible to financial members of the Association? Is this linked to the CivicCRM system we use for managing the membership database?
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Post by coulomb » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 22:05

11. Line spacing not preserved.
viewtopic.php?title=weber-and-coulombs- ... 496#p29496
http://forums.aeva.net.au/viewtopic.php ... df1#p27839

Edit: I note that this (double line spacing) happens when I edit the original as well. So it's possibly something odd that the Web Wiz software is doing. But it would still be good if it can be translated to how it appears now.
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 11:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 22:29

jonescg wrote: I notice there is a members section at the top - I trust this is only accessible to financial members of the Association? Is this linked to the CivicCRM system we use for managing the membership database?
And the segregation begins...

Having read the entire thread I think something painfully obvious has been overlooked.

Knowledge is not the exclusive domain of paid members! ALL forums lurkers, and active posters suffer when an opinion can not be expressed by ALL (paid member or not).

When you create separation of any kind you create inequality. Inequality leads to resentment, you only have to look at any apartheid to know this.

Once I feel like I no longer have an equal say, or suspect access to relevant EV related conversation is being restricted, I am out of here to join other forums.

While some may consider this no loss consider this, in my 1800+ posts somewhere in there has been the odd nugget of wisdom. Whilst I may not be the most knowledgeable person on the forum, I have been there making posts for others to read when things have been quiet.

The success of any forum is based on having something new to read not on paid membership. I suspect I will not be the only person to feel this way, and should be carefully considered before locking people out of threads.

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Post by weber » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 22:36

jonescg wrote: I notice there is a members section at the top - I trust this is only accessible to financial members of the Association? Is this linked to the CivicCRM system we use for managing the membership database?

Well spotted! No. There is no such linkage at this stage. That will be something Rob and Karl can finally begin work on, once gConverter have finished their job.

That "AEVA MEMBERS AREA" is currently visible to the world in the phpBB forum.

In the WebWiz forum it is not visible to me (an AEVA member since Jan 2009), and yet it has some quite recent posts. So presumably it is only visible to a select few on the WebWiz forum, based on some outdated AEVA membership list.
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Post by weber » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 23:05

Hi EV2Go,

I agree with all you say about sharing knowledge, and you have certainly been (and I hope will continue to be) a valued contributor in Coulomb's and my threads, but you seem to have the wrong idea entirely about the purpose of an AEVA Members Only area.

Firstly, I hope you understand from my previous post that this area has always existed in the forum. It was just hidden from you, and from me. Did you miss it? I know I didn't. When I look at it now, it looks as boring as hell.

But it seems perfectly reasonable to me that those who have contributed money to an organisation should be allowed to have discussions about the use of that money, without interference or oversight from those who have not.

If the AEVA, as well as providing this free forum service to the world, had their own completely separate forum with a different URL, for discussing AEVA business, would you care? No. Why would you? But that would be incredibly inconvenient for those who wanted to be members of both forums. So just look at it that way.

Any AEVA member would be nuts to post EV stuff of general interest to the AEVA Members Only area, for the very reasons you gave.
Last edited by weber on Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 12:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gabz » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 23:12

EV2Go wrote:

Once I feel like I no longer have an equal say, or suspect access to relevant EV related conversation is being restricted, I am out of here to join other forums.
Why should you get equal say ? when it's the membership fees which pay for hosting and domain names.. sure it would only take 3 members to pay for this but people who choose to support the AEVA financially should have greater say in the decisions.
While some may consider this no loss consider this, in my 1800+ posts somewhere in there has been the odd nugget of wisdom. Whilst I may not be the most knowledgeable person on the forum, I have been there making posts for others to read when things have been quiet.

The success of any forum is based on having something new to read not on paid membership. I suspect I will not be the only person to feel this way, and should be carefully considered before locking people out of threads.


there isn't a premium content section...the members only section is the worst part of the forum there is little there and rarely updated.

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Post by jonescg » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 23:25

Yeah, I've never seen that section either. CONSPIRACY!!!! Image

A members only section would be for financial members of this fine and important association to plan meetings, discuss policies and ideas for furthering the EV cause. You wouldn't be missing much, but if you did feel like you could help on a higher level, you're always welcome to spend the $20 or $40 and get onboard.
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 23:36

Hey weber, I have only just seen from some of the posts in that section that it even existed.

I can appreciate your view on this matter, but I would offer a counter view. I am a member of several audio related forums where there is no secret squirrel hiding places, and everything is discussed out in the open, nor is there a cost to be a member. These sites are run purely on donations, and the love of the hobby / obsession.

The question I would ask are the people posting in this member area being fair to me? As I said I have seen times over the last 6 years where it has gone very quiet and I have posted to deliberately to keep conversation moving and people visiting the forums, to keep their interest going.

I am also a member of a Nissan Silvia car forum from when I had my 180sx that has literally died due to lack of conversation, and no one posts in it any more, it's virtually dead. So I know what can happen if people stop posting.

To me I see EV related discussion in that members area that could have be shared with others, so while this non member was trying to keep the website alive for others, it would seem some paid members have not given it the same consideration.

I can appreciate a members only area to discuss club only business but when other EV related items are being discussed in this "special" members only section that gets up my nose as being elitist.

I don't want to be a member because to be honest the BS and politics that goes on inside and outside of the meetings is not what I am interested in. I am interested in sharing ideas with like minded EV enthusiasts like myself, the same as I do with my other hobbies.

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Post by karlg » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 23:46

The thing I have in my mind's eye when I think about non-public threads closely matches jonescg's: I think about the kinds of discussions that go into getting an event together. It's not knowledge about EVs, and it's transitory, and it might contain private information like contact details that you don't want splattered over the internet.

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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 23:47

Can people please get back on topic and stop worrying about the merits or otherwise of a members area? [But I agree with KarlG, just above]
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 11 Nov 2014, 23:55

Gabz wrote:
EV2Go wrote:
Once I feel like I no longer have an equal say, or suspect access to relevant EV related conversation is being restricted, I am out of here to join other forums.
Why should you get equal say ? when it's the membership fees which pay for hosting and domain names.. sure it would only take 3 members to pay for this but people who choose to support the AEVA financially should have greater say in the decisions.
It is this kind of comment that makes me seriously question if I even want to continue posting in the forums period.

How dare you assume that what you have to say is any more valid or more important than anything I may have to say. Forums live and die with posts. You can have the most impressive paid forum going, but it isn't worth jack if no one posts in it.

This is exactly the kind of garbage that over runs and kills a forum when politics gets involved, and the I'm more important than you creeps in, or I hold a bigger position in the organisation that you.

Want to kill this forum just let this attitude grow, and I guarantee failure. Treat everyone equally and promote the equal flow of ideas and it will flourish. Have you never worked in an environment where the boss is always right and they dismiss any idea you have? Best way to close down suggestions and conversation is with this kind of elitism, it has the exact same effect.

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