Prelude conversion project - some questions

Technical discussion on converting internal combustion to electric
antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2455
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by antiscab » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 11:45

you still have the clutch yeah? Why not start in 1st? Let the motor spin so back emf is closer to the battery voltage
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 11:47

You run out of legs half way across the intersection...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2455
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by antiscab » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:19

Ah, no field weakening then. Hmmm tedious.

Quick shift gearbox though. How long does it take to change gear?
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:47

Not long - clutch is very nice to have.

I just drove into Freo to try the EO chargers - no dice.

So its OpenEVSE or nothing...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2601
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by weber » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 14:42

jonescg wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 11:39
The regen braking is good, but it's almost worth adding a switch which doesn't activate the brake lights. 5 or 6 kW isn't much braking power. It certainly feels like an auto in that will 'run on' once you are up to speed. So it will take some care and slight change in driving style.
Is there any possibility of doing accelerator-back-off regen as we did in Mexy?
viewtopic.php?p=30596#p30596
Does your inverter let you specify both rpm and torque (or active current) on the fly?
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 15:13

There is *some* back-off regen, but nothing like what we have on Voltron. It seems the brake regen is the best you can hope for and it barely pulls the car up. The controller is really dumb - there are like, 9 pins controlling the whole show. It was fair for the price, but short of adding more volts I can't think there's a way of making it vastly better.

Another thing I notice is the car sometimes gets a bit of a lurch up over rough patches of road. It feels like the wheels are oval-shaped. I suspect it might be a feedback between foot, pedal and gravity, but crossing the Fremantle traffic bridge (rather lumpy bit of road) I would let off the pedal completely, but it still got this wobble up. The battery is very secure up and down, fore and aft, but I think it could use a bit more left and right bracing. However, I really don't think this is the problem. I guess it also just drives like a 31 year old car...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Tue, 10 Sep 2019, 09:30

An update on yesterday's efforts.

I attempted to charge at an EO charger in Fremantle - no dice.
On the way home, I attempted to charge from the Schneider charge point at Melville Renault - worked for a minute, then stopped. Un-plug, re-plug, runs for a minute, then stops.
I drove on to Kewdale Tavern where there are some Tesla destination chargers - no dice. Solid red on one, and nothing on the other.
Clearly the AVC2 is only able to spoof the most basic of EVSEs. I didn't bring the Open EVSE with me, so I couldn't even charge at work on a 32 A socket.

I had no choice but to attempt to drive home with a low module and potentially laggard cell. I put myself behind a bus, and even at 35 kW up the hill at 60 km/h, it bombed out. Pleased to report the low cell cut-out worked as it should, it's just a shame that corner on Welshpool Road is so hairy - folks come ripping around there at 100 km/h and there is nowhere to pull off. Thankfully a ute pulled up ahead of me and gave me a tow to the servo 200 m up the road.
2019-09-09.jpg
2019-09-09.jpg (73.43 KiB) Viewed 529 times
Well known EV Angel of Goosberry Hill, @BrianM kindly gave me a tow back to home.

I put the car on charge and managed to get the cells back into nominal range, and set it to balance again. By morning there is still about 200 mV between highest and lowest, so it will take some time. I have a feeling this module will need to be pulled out regardless. No cells should lose so much capacity just sitting there, particularly when the rest are all still holding nominal voltages. Besides, I now know what causes the oval wheels - the unsupported mass in the centre of the battery box gets a wobble-up like Rolf Harris on a street corner in Basso. It needs some internal bracing/boxing and I'm not convinced the honeycomb is worth a sod. Strong, sure. But it's got lots of flex. An aluminium box is heavier, but has other obvious benefits.

So it's off the road for a while yet :(
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 10 Sep 2019, 12:24

Wow, that all sounds depressing, worst part is you may have made it home if you didn't do all the stops looking for a charge.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Wed, 11 Sep 2019, 14:40

One possible cause of the EVSE failures is the lack of a 2.7k resistor between proximity and ground. I'll have to give this a try and see how it goes. It means another drive down the hill though...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

tidalev
Noobie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue, 29 May 2018, 14:44

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by tidalev » Wed, 11 Sep 2019, 16:53

so you have the avc2 not the avc2r ?
http://modularevpower.com/Active_Vehicl ... opment.htm

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Wed, 11 Sep 2019, 20:02

Correct. However we tried a resistor between Prox and Gnd and it make no difference with an EVSE from Hyundai. Yet the Mitsubishi EVSE worked just fine even with the T1-T2 adapter. Curiouser...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 09:28

jonescg wrote:
Wed, 11 Sep 2019, 20:02
we tried a resistor between Prox and Gnd and it make no difference with...
Was that with the AVC2 still connected? I was just talking to Jeff Owen about this. He tells me that the AVC2 has the 2.7 kΩ resistor already in place, but also puts the 1.3 kΩ resistor across that after a short delay. That's the 882 Ω (= 2.74 kΩ || 1.3 kΩ) total resistance that indicates state C ("EV charging", +6 V and -12 V on the pilot pin). Many EVSEs want to see the progression from state B to state C, so that's why just a single 882 Ω resistor isn't good enough for those EVSEs, and that's the main value of the AVC2 over just a diode and resistor.




But it seems that some EVSEs require a longer delay between states B and C. He suggests a 12 second delay, though it might be anywhere between 8 and 12 seconds. He has a gizmo for his car where the 1.3 kΩ resistor is on a switch, so he can try various timings. To find out if this is the problem, you'll need to disconnect the ACV2's pilot signal connection, and use your own diode, two resistors, and a switch arrangement.

Despite all this, there are still some Tesla EVSEs that refuse to connect to non-Tesla vehicles. There is talk of a dip switch inside the Tesla EVSEs, which might or might not be in the "legacy" position. Jeff doesn't seem to subscribe to that theory. I have seen some posts that seem to contradict the idea that certain part number ranges of Tesla EVSEs will or won't talk to non-Tesla vehicles.

Finally, with respect to some EVSEs cutting off after a minute. This could be due to earth leakage; Tesla EVSEs have a reputation for being trigger happy earth leakage. Maybe when a fan comes on in the vehicle, some extra earth leakage may be present that trips the earth leakage detector in the EVSE. But if this one minute delay is a repeatable thing, then it would indicate against the earth leakage idea (unless the vehicle always turned on a fan at just that time). The other possibility we came up with is the EVSE giving the vehicle one minute or so to respect the current limit given by the pilot signal. Especially at locations where several EVSEs share a limited power source, it may be that with other vehicles already using much of the available power, there is little power left to offer. The converted vehicle, even though it has a relatively small power requirement, it could be higher than the limit, and it doesn't respect the limit implied by the pilot signal PWM duty cycle. The EVSE after a minute or so loses patience with the vehicle and cuts off all power, so as not to exceed the available power for more than a minute. Cables can presumably handle an overload for a minute.

These are all theories, nothing is definite, but it might help explain some of these incompatibilities. For example, it will be worth noting whether other vehicles are charging nearby, to see if the power sharing theory could be true.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 10:27

Thanks Mike,
The Schneider charger at Melville Renault is a stand-alone charger, so nothing else in the region. I assume it's a 32 A unit, because the Prelude charger currently takes about 27 A from the wall. I can't find a decent diagram of the AVC2, however I did spot this:
avc1_13182s.jpg
avc1_13182s.jpg (69.2 KiB) Viewed 464 times
avc1_13181s.jpg
avc1_13181s.jpg (86.67 KiB) Viewed 456 times
Does that look like it has internal switches and timers?
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 11:29

jonescg wrote:
Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 10:27
Does that look like it has internal switches and timers?
Granted, no. But this is an AVC1, the predecessor to the AVC2, and the difference could well be the timer. A timer could of course be done in software with an 8-pin microcontroller. Also, there must be more components on the back of the AVC1 board, like the relay. The paucity of vias does indicate against anything terribly complex on the back of the AVC1.

Edit 2: Oh, wait; that second photo (somehow I didn't see in that post) actually is the back of the AVC1. Or at least the other side.

[ Edit: "in" → "on the back of" ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 11:31

coulomb wrote:
Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 11:29
Granted, no. But this is an AVC1, the predecessor to the AVC2, and the difference could well be the timer. A timer could of course be done in software with an 8-pin microcontroller. Also, there must be more components on the back of the AVC1 board, like the relay. The paucity of vias does indicate against anything terribly complex in the AVC1.
I think the only difference between the two was the neat plastic case it was mounted in.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 12:33

OK, they say as much on this page: "It’s the same unit packaged in a box with mounting ears and better terminal marking."

But I do see two capacitors large enough in capacitance that they have a polarity stripe. I'd say that one of these along with a high value resistor provides the delay. One of the SOT-23 devices would be a MOSFET, requiring minuscule gate current. That's good engineering; keeping it simple.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 12:39

OK, they say as much on this page: "It’s the same unit packaged in a box with mounting ears and better terminal marking." (Also this page).

But I do see two capacitors large enough in capacitance that they have a polarity stripe. I'd say that one of these along with a high value resistor provides the delay. One of the SOT-23 devices would be a MOSFET, requiring minuscule gate current. That's good engineering; keeping it simple.

Edit: this page suggests that the delay isn't a fixed time delay, but rather relies on the latch (proximity) being the last signal to come to the correct voltage when plugging in.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 13:31

Which is why I think it works best with Type-1 and not with Type-2. Perhaps a delay of some kind is needed for Type-2?
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
Jeff Owen
Groupie
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu, 13 Nov 2008, 15:53
Real Name: Jeff Owen
Location: Brisbane

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by Jeff Owen » Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 23:09

jonescg wrote:
Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 13:31
Which is why I think it works best with Type-1 and not with Type-2. Perhaps a delay of some kind is needed for Type-2?
Early Type 1 EVSEs generally don't need the switching capability. Later Type 1 and all of the Type 2s that I have tried do require the switching and I suspect this is just a function of them being manufactured after the recommendation that the EVSE should see the 3 states. Apart from Tesla EVSEs, I have never found a need for a significant delay between plugging in and switching to State C. Plugging in and immediately throwing the switch has always worked. The ACV2 should function in these circumstances.

Your experience with the Schneider charge point at Melville Renault is familiar. I have had a similar experience charging an IMiEV at a Tesla 3 phase EVSE. I used a modified (shortened) Type 2 to Type 1 adaptor cable connected to my Type 1 to 3 pin adaptor with the switching circuit. This arrangement works with my conversion and will fully charge it. But, when connected to an IMiEV via the portable EVSE, the car would charge for a short time and then drop out. I am not an electronics person and really don't know why my conversion will charge and the IMiEV won't. It does suggest a condition within the car can prevent charging.

Single phase Tesla EVSEs don't require the switch and can use an equivalent resistor. 3 phase Tesla EVSEs do require the switch and do need a delay between plugging in and switching to State C. I wait about 12 s after plugging in. Your experience with the Tesla going straight to red is consistent with the delay being too short. This could be corrected by using the diode, resistor, switch circuit or possibly hacking the ACV2. On occasions, I have had Tesla EVSEs show a fault and have been able to correct the situation by resetting or rebooting the EVSE. Recently I have found 2 Tesla sites in Brisbane where my adaptor doesn't work and it is possible the site you tried is the same. While I have a couple of theories as to why these sites don't work, I suspect a solution is way above my pay level.

I hope you are able to get your adaptors sorted out as it is somewhat perversely satisfying to have a 35 year old lead acid powered conversion charging alongside the latest Tesla.

A lot of my testing has been done with the adaptors and a Digitech QP2004 tester from Jaycar. This arrangement takes out the variables associated with the car and charger, and can be used to determine if the EVSE can be connected to.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 21:35

I tried to change the resistor arrangement as per the Modular EV Power website's suggestions. I was plugging Richard's Open EVSE in.

Putting a 880 R resistor between pilot Earth and ground caused a 'ventilation error'.
Putting a 1.3kR resistor between pilot Earth and ground caused a 'diode error'.
Putting a 2.7 kR resistor between pilot Earth and ground caused the same diode error.

Removing the resistor all together caused it to start charging happily. managed to charge it up before taking it for a short, but challenging drive - down to the bottom of Kalamunda Road to buy some beer, then back up the hill. It held 70 km/h no problem and drew no more than about 35 or 40 kW. So provided the battery had enough charge it's not a big deal. It's been balancing this whole time, but I've reached a point where Module 5 is typically sitting at 3.95 V while all other modules are at 4.15 V. It can't seem to shake this last 200 mV. In fact, I have a feeling the self-discharge of module 5 might be more than the BMS can bring the other modules down to.

After all this I thought stuff it, I'll put the 'charge enable' relay in place so that at least there's an over-charge failsafe.

I did so, and upon plugging in... no charge.

I figured I must have got the contacts on the relay wrong, so I swapped them... Still no charge.

This is weird, am I going mad? I put the charge enable wires on the charger together, like I had before...

The LEDs went from Red-Red-Green-Green to Red-Red-red... Green-green-green-green...

Still no charge.

I have tried everything now, and still, this charger won't charge! DC fuse is still in tact, but I will need to do a few more tests to see that we're getting battery potential to the charger. Not what I was hoping for at this stage...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 22:12

jonescg wrote:
Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 21:35
I tried to change the resistor arrangement as per the Modular EV Power website's suggestions.
I suspect a misunderstanding, or error in the web page.
Putting a 880 R resistor between pilot Earth and ground caused a 'ventilation error'.
Putting a 1.3kR resistor between pilot Earth and ground caused a 'diode error'.
Putting a 2.7 kR resistor between pilot Earth and ground caused the same diode error.
I assume by "pilot earth" you actually meant "pilot signal". The above sounds like you're leaving the AVC2 connected, and are not using a diode with these resistors. If you put a diode in series with any of these three resistors, better things should happen (anode to the pilot signal). Or you should connect these resistors after the diode inside the AVC2. The pilot signal always has to go to a diode first. From the Wikipedia J1772 page (type 2 is supposed to be the same, though type 2 doesn't have the button):

Image

The AVC2 does seem to be putting the correct sequence of resistances after the diode: 2k74 for state B (EV connected), then 882 Ω (= 2k74 in parallel with 1.30 kΩ) for state C (EV charging). It just may need more time between states B and C for some EVSEs.
After all this I thought stuff it, I'll put the 'charge enable' relay in place so that at least there's an over-charge failsafe.
I did so, and upon plugging in... no charge.
Did you perhaps use an earthed soldering iron while the connector was still plugged in to the charger? That should be OK, as long as the battery is totally isolated. One of the connections to the enable relay (D) is +12 V with respect to pin E, and on older Elcon/TC chargers, this is connected with low impedance (like a shunt) to battery negative. Can you measure about 12 V between D and E now? If not, the internal 12 V power supply probably has blown, via some leakage (resistive or capacitive) from the pack to vehicle earth. That could cause all sorts of problems. Though clearly the processor in the charger is still running, so hopefully I'm wrong about anything blowing up, and it will turn out to be some head-slap thing after a fresh start.
The LEDs went from Red-Red-Green-Green to Red-Red-red... Green-green-green-green...
In other words, from one undocumented code to another undocumented code. It seems that they haven't improved with their manuals. None of this has impressed me about these newer TC chargers.
Not what I was hoping for at this stage...
Yeah, I feel it too. Frustrating when you are so close.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 22:16

Yes, the AVC2 is indeed still connected with all of this. I had assumed that the AVC2 had a diode and relevant resistors in there to start with... otherwise, what's the point of it?

I will troubleshoot the TC charger tomorrow morning when I'm fresh. Not a good idea to persist right now.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 22:28

jonescg wrote:
Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 22:16
Yes, the AVC2 is indeed still connected with all of this. I had assumed that the AVC2 had a diode and relevant resistors in there to start with... otherwise, what's the point of it?
It certainly has the diode; it's visible in the middle right of the AVC1, right next to the pilot pin.

Connecting a 2.7 kΩ resistor to ground makes more sense on the proximity pin, not the pilot pin. The J1772 (or type 2) cord is supposed to have the 2.7 kΩ resistor installed from proximity to earth. Ah, since this is a type 2 cord, I wonder if this doesn't exist? The AVC2 will be expecting it. Maybe the OpenEVSE has it, but other type 2 EVSE's don't? That could explain a lot of your public charging problems. But you can't put it there permanently, for those cases where it already exists. So maybe a switch? Leave it in the position that is needed most of the time, and instruct the user to use it if there are problems connecting.

Edit: I wrote this when it was late, OK? Now it seems clear to me (even though it's even later as I type this :) ) that type 2 inlets should also have the 2.7 kΩ resistor to earth, and that's what you are likely missing. A type 2 plug (or type 2 to type 2 cable I think) should have just the 150 Ω resistor to earth, and the AVC2 should be detecting the change from 2.7 kΩ to 142 Ω (2.70 kΩ in parallel with 150 Ω) as an indication that the connector is plugged in all the way. That's why it's called proximity - the plug is in proximity with the back of the socket, I guess. A type 1 (J1772) plug could increase its resistance from 150 Ω to 480 Ω (150 Ω in series with 330 Ω) when the switch is pressed, but type 2 plugs don't have this switch.

I note that there is a version of the AVC2, called the AVC2R, that has this resistor. But you've already tried adding that resistor, and it hasn't helped.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by brendon_m » Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 22:37

coulomb wrote:
Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 22:12
One of the connections to the enable relay (D) is +12 V with respect to pin E, and on older Elcon/TC chargers, this is connected with low impedance (like a shunt) to battery negative. Can you measure about 12 V between D and E now? If not, the internal 12 V power supply probably has blown, via some leakage (resistive or capacitive) from the pack to vehicle earth. That could cause all sorts of problems.
Does that mean that pin E is the same potential as pack negative? Which would mean if pin E is put to vehicle earth then pack negative will no longer be above ground?

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 23:18

brendon_m wrote:
Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 22:37
Does that mean that pin E is the same potential as pack negative?
It certainly does on the older Elcon/TC chargers that I'm more familiar with. I can't say for certain with the new chargers, but I'd say there is a chance of that. Some things never seem to change (like poor documentation of LED flash codes :x ).
Which would mean if pin E is put to vehicle earth then pack negative will no longer be above ground?
If I'm right that E is not isolated from pack negative, then yes, you absolutely can't connect E to vehicle chassis / ground. EV packs should be floating, and indeed there should be checks that it remains floating every time the car starts up (an NCOP14 requirement, or at least it was).
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

Post Reply