Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Technical discussion on converting internal combustion to electric
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photomac
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by photomac » Mon, 07 Mar 2011, 20:08

I am seeking pointers to the max weight an EV can be compared to it's ICE version.

I have determined a short range (60km to 80% DoD, 44xThundersky 100AH) EV will be similar in weight to the original ICE.
If I double the batteries by adding an extra 44cells x 3.2kg = 140kg over original
and if I triple adding 2x44cells extra it is 280kg over original.

With this scenario my thought was to turn a 5 seater midsize car into a 4-seater, with the central back seat replaced with a small armrest containing just 10 to 12 cells with-in that armrest. This reduced passenger potential I believe means extra battery weight can be added.

Anyone with comments? Experiences?
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by seligtype3 » Thu, 10 Mar 2011, 00:26

This is still spreadsheet data but I've got a 1035kg 5 seater VW. Post conversion I'm looking at a 1145kg 4 seater with 45x160Ah TS cells. I'll delete the middle rear seat belt.

EDIT: Once I allow for my min 82kg per passenger within the GVM I'll be just inside my max 1485kg limit.
Last edited by seligtype3 on Wed, 09 Mar 2011, 13:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Johny » Thu, 10 Mar 2011, 14:12

I'm also going for a range of approx 60km @80% DOD.
Pre conversion weight was 1092kg.
Post conversion weight should be 1085kg - slightly lighter.
We are re-doing the whole interior with some thought to losing weight there as well (not included in 1085kg figure).

I'm using 384 x 38120S(10AH) Headway cells weighing in at about 150kg. Only a 12kw/h pack but lots of grunt.

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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by photomac » Fri, 11 Mar 2011, 02:34

Johny wrote: I'm using 384 x 38120S(10AH) Headway cells weighing in at about 150kg. Only a 12kw/h pack but lots of grunt.



I've not really looked at these batteries until your post. They seem really compact! I adjusted my spreadsheet and it is possible to pack in soooo much more or use lot less space. Particulary so if "moulding" to the existing form of a Host vehicle.

Did you order though an Aussie supplier or direct from Headway?

How fiddly has the packing/wiring been for you?

and thanks for the above response Image
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Johny » Fri, 11 Mar 2011, 14:47

photomac wrote:How fiddly has the packing/wiring been for you?
I bought direct from Headway. I used their boxes but you can get nice cell support stuff. I also used their BMS with modifications. The most complete answer I can give you is to read my blog. There is a list on the right hand side of the page so select "Batteries" or follow this link.

Scroll right to the bottom and read upwards.
http://electricvogue.blogspot.com/searc ... /Batteries

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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Mesuge » Sat, 12 Mar 2011, 12:01

Sorry for highjacking the thread slightly.
Richo, I'm wondering why didn't you opt for the Tuarn/Mal method of braking the packs via contactors into smaller ~48V divisions? Was it because of the factory BMS from Headway, which you modified? So, you are using only two -ve/+ve EV200s then? Or am I missing something else from the plan and you are just ok with ~300VDC? Thanks
Last edited by Mesuge on Sat, 12 Mar 2011, 01:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Johny » Tue, 15 Mar 2011, 14:16

That was meant for me I think. PM sent.

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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Richo » Tue, 15 Mar 2011, 20:55

I'll answer anyway Image
I think 48V packs is probably overkill.(pardon the pun Image)
I have not found a good cheap contactor to handle 150A/300A for pack break-up that is better than the Kilovacs.
I currently have 6 Kilovacs for pack breakup.
I'll be using ~220 cells in series (possibly more if it fits) which is 704V nom / 804V charged.
So even with 6 kilovacs (1 top,1 botttom, 4 in middle) this is 176V nom.
So I'll probably buy some more to get it around 72-100V.
My BMS doesn't care about pack break-ups.
I am using the individual Headway cells rather than the packs Johny has.

48V for Tuarns eV is ok as the current draw is lower and there are more reasonably priced relay's.

Not that I should be skrimping on saftey to save a few measly $$$
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Mesuge » Wed, 16 Mar 2011, 01:12

Oh, yes a little confusion with the addressee there, thanks.
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Richo » Thu, 17 Mar 2011, 20:53

I stil believe that if you have seperate packs in the car ie one in the boot one in the engine bay then they should have a contactor on the + and - of each section.
So that would be 4 contactors anyway.

Don't forget with the weights it is also good to keep similar balance.
Also Perth is not that big.
My daily travel is 50km.
It would be hard to justify having 180km range.
How often do you think you would go 180km in an eV to warrant changing the back seat?
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by photomac » Thu, 17 Mar 2011, 22:06

180km range is hard to justify - more for ego really.
That said, I regularly travel once or twice a week 110km in a day. If there is a power outage - common unfortunately - I cannot afford a flat battery for another 50km (to get home to petrol car).
Another attraction is I have family in Bunbury, 175km away, and I like holidaying in Augusta, another 140km.
So visit family overnight in Bunbury - paying my way Image - and onward to Augusta. I do this anyway.
A 180km range means I can be a one car owner - that's attractive.

I like the concept of three parallel packs of 44(46) TS cells so - hopefully - one of those 3 packs can be removed -plug-in scenario - so not to always carry the weight. That 3rd pack could be utilised at home - perhaps?

None the less - if I am 140kg or 280kg over i need to reduce carrying capacity I believe.
Any idea how this works? Is it 90kg per passenger plus some?

The car that seems to lend itself well - on spreadsheet - is the Mazda6 (2005-08 model) - it also has a generous boot space allowing batteries above and slightly forward the rear wheels and a fair capacity (65L) fuel tank and the bonnet should afford a top layer of batteries, not to forget the rear central seat position.

Of course a Hilux 2WD workmate would be easy to do - but - not so - luxurious?
Funny 0 do all this speculating makes me appreciate the sense in doing "vintage" cars.
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by gmacd33 » Thu, 17 Mar 2011, 22:49

To get good range from minimum weight you could look at an AC motor - even on the highway without regen it's more efficient, thus more range. AC motors also tend to be lighter than DC motors of the same power.

There are also much lighter batteries available, with just as much capacity, power etc - in LFP or Li-Ion.

However both of the above cost a lot more...
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Vehicle weights post EV conversion

Post by Johny » Fri, 18 Mar 2011, 14:22

photomac wrote:None the less - if I am 140kg or 280kg over i need to reduce carrying capacity I believe.
Any idea how this works? Is it 90kg per passenger plus some?
NCOP14 January 2011 Page 19/29 states:
"In assessing the total mass and mass distribution allow at least 68 kg per passenger, plus 13.6 kg of luggage for each passenger, for a total minimum allowance of 81.6 kg per passenger. This allowance is the legal minimum. Given the size of the Australian population, it is
recommended that the allowance used is higher."

Grab a copy of NCOP14 for other useful stuff (if you haven't already got it).

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