Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 13:34

Original post by Pdove:
Originally Posted by Weisheimer
Coulomb, Paul, and Kenny,

Fine job you fellows are doing here and I applaud your work.

The Elcon/TCCH/Chennic chargers are a very decent charger and making this information available opens up the 2nd most popular (only the Zivan is used in more DIY projects) DIY EV charger to further use.
If looking at the numbers by most recent purchases, the E/T/C charger is more popular.

I have a question about the firmware. Coulomb mentions the role of "calibrated" voltage values in the EEPROM. Are there any calibrated values for current as well?
Do you see any process or routine for determining these calibration numbers in the current firmware available?
I envision a bench set up where a known DC voltage(s) is presented, the value is measured by the existing divider network, and the calibration numbers are thus read and available for use in the EEPROM.
Or is the only choice to read the EEPROM values and re-use them when reflashing?
Not sure I follow what you are wanting.

The values in EEPROM are numbers to convert counts to voltage and current and values to change these to PWM pulses. They need calibration because they are tuned to the particular resistors in each charger.

Currently I read the resistors and calculate the values then program the charger. Power it up and measure the output to what the charger is spitting out the serial port and then tweet the numbers and try again and iterate till it reads the same.

These things are sensitive so if you are off very much it won't even turn on it gets stuck in a loop somewhere. So it tedious if you loose this EEPROM info.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 13:35

Original post by dcb:

Sorry for my ignorance here, does one need the can "option" in order to use can control of volts/current, or can it be done directly via the 8051 uart?
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 13:36

pdove;552970 wrote:... then tweak the numbers and try again and iterate till it reads the same. ... So it tedious if you lose this EEPROM info.
As mentioned, there is nothing in the normal firmware to aid with calibration. However, I did find some leaked source code for firmware with the word "adjust" in the file name. These appear to assume a precision or at least strong power supply capable of absorbing all (or a good chunk of) rated charger current (per charger unit, so you "only" need a 2 kW supply/load for a 4 kW charger that has two 2 kW units paralleled).

I suppose that we could build such equipment and use their special firmware, then replace with final (charging) firmware. But it seems more convenient to roll our own, where there doesn't need to be a precision source, just a suitable battery, and measurements from a decent multimeter could be typed in. It would process these, perhaps do some iteration, and when ready would program the EEPROM automatically. It could also spit out some data used to print a record of what was programmed.

That calibrator is on the list of things to do.

Calibrating is necessary in the case where the processor is damaged, so the original EEPROM values can't be read. It's not a completely unheard of type of fault, and Paul has successfully revived more than one charger this way (well done, Paul). Interestingly, Elcon in Sacramento won't even attempt to repair a charger where the processor is dead.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 13:36

I forgot to mention that with an Elcon/TC charger with original CAN firmware, you don't need the CAN "dongle" that they supply. The dongle literally just translates CAN packets of a particular format into 2400 bps serial data in a particular format. From memory, it's a very simple 12-byte format, with the first 4 bytes being a particular extended CAN id. The voltage and current settings are in an integer format using tenths of a volt and tenths of an ampere. There is one bit in one byte that turns on and off the output relay (but for turning on it checks to make sure the battery isn't reversed or very low in voltage, the usual thing).

So even if you choose not to change the firmware (and it's a non trivial exercise to do that), you can still talk to the "CAN" firmware (really it's 2400 bps serial firmware) through a simple serial interface. I think I saw a BMS system that would talk to an Elcon/TC charger serially, without needing the CAN dongle.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:09

Original post by dcb:

wow, so a 2400 baud protocol, slave firmware available, saw the arduino programmer on the facts thread... It will tell you the volts/amps/temp? and all you do is tell it what to do next?

if you please, a few more questions:
1. is the slave firmware model specific. i.e. pfc-1500, pfc-2500, etc.

2. with a microcontroller master, can it manage the calibration instead of eprom fun?

3. each model has specific voltage/amp ratings, I am thinking there are different components involved, but by any chance are they universal? i.e. can a 48v charger make 240v (assuming you limit the current) with slave firmware?

4. how does one obtain said firmware (and details on slave control)?

Thanks kindly, and nice work!
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:12

Original post by Pdove:
Originally Posted by dcb
wow, so a 2400 baud protocol, slave firmware available, saw the arduino programmer on the facts thread... It will tell you the volts/amps/temp? and all you do is tell it what to do next?
The slave firmware is in all the dual chargers. 3kw, 4kw, 5kw etc.
These chargers have two halves or two 1.5kw chargers bolted together in the 3kw instance with slave firmware in one and master in the other.
The slave firmware does not put data out the serial bus only the master.
However, Mike modified it to output this info for one that I programmed for someone and he put it in the master half of the charger and used a PC to command voltage and current.
Originally Posted by dcb
2. with a microcontroller master, can it manage the calibration instead of eprom fun?
Not sure what you mean.
Originally Posted by dcb
3. each model has specific voltage/amp ratings, I am thinking there are different components involved, but by any chance are they universal? i.e. can a 48v charger make 240v (assuming you limit the current) with slave firmware?
The voltage is hardware specific

Mike will have to give details on the slave code.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:13

Original post by dcb:

thanks for clarifying, it may be a moot point though since you don't see to many second hand 1500-2500w units that can handle a 240v nominal. And new means don't forget the can interface and bump up the voltage. But if I knew where to find a bargain on a used one I'd love to experiment w/it.

edit, looks like canbus adds $100+, did I read something about analog bms control? Any info on that?
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:14

Original post by Pdove:
Originally Posted by dcb
thanks for clarifying, it may be a moot point though since you don't see to many second hand 1500-2500w units that can handle a 240v nominal. And new means don't forget the can interface and bump up the voltage. But if I knew where to find a bargain on a used one I'd love to experiment w/it.

edit, looks like canbus adds $100+, did I read something about analog bms control? Any info on that?
The high voltage units don't put out much current

Can code can be put in any of them.

Only two ways to control them current and voltage with the can model or e
The enable pin on the front connector with the no can version.

I think Mike was talking about the elithion BMS.
http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/elcon.php
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:16

dcb;553098 wrote: It will tell you the volts/amps/temp? and all you do is tell it what to do next?
I'm quite rusty on the slave firmware. I think by default it doesn't put any info on the serial port, as Paul stated, but it's easy (if you are modifying firmware anyway) to make it emit the same data that a master does. Usually this makes no sense, as the master is already outputting this info. So this would be only for "stand alone slave" firmware.
1. is the slave firmware model specific. i.e. pfc-1500, pfc-2500, etc.
I had a quick look, and the first one I looked at had a lot of voltage/current/power specific code in it. But that was for if the EEPROM doesn't have an expected value, but that value is there for every charger we've ever examined. So that part is never called.

But it's probably like the master code; they could have written it to be completely model independent (reading anything model specific from the EEPROM values), but they haven't. In our "canonical" firmware (just one of the Lithium-based ones that looked recent), we've been modifying it to be model independent. We think we've achieved that, or maybe there are one or two places left that aren't quite independent. But it works well enough to run a 96 V nominal charger (originally a 144 V nominal, from memory).
2. with a microcontroller master, can it manage the calibration instead of eprom fun?
No, the masters don't have any capability for calibration. The normal charger software uses about 7.7 kiB of the 8 kiB flash memory, so there is no room for anything special.
3. each model has specific voltage/amp ratings, I am thinking there are different components involved, but by any chance are they universal?
Most of the charger components are model independent. The things that affect the output voltage and current are
1) The high voltage transformer. It usually has something like "144 V 14:8" written on it, meaning 144 V nominal (some 190 V max), and a turns ratio of 14:8. So it outputs some 8/14ths of the voltage at the output of the PFC stage. If you work on 330 V at the DC bus, multiplying by the turns ratio (8/14) will get you close to the max voltage. For this ratio, 330 x 8/14 = 189 V. Of course, as the ratio increases (more voltage), the current decreases.
2) The MOSFETs may change, though we've often found the same or similar ones in widely different voltage models.
3) The output rectifiers may change. In particular, the very high voltage models (say 300+ volts) have two output windings, each with their own rectifiers, which are put in series. I believe that this is because it's difficult to get fast rectifiers that handle high voltage. For example, I've seen "300 V 13:8:8" written on a transformer. This one puts out 417 V maximum. So it's really a 13:16 transformer (step up, not step down), with the secondary split into two windings.
4) The 1500 W and 2000+W models are similar too. In the larger models, the 12 V transformer may be bigger, the PFC inductor is larger and is placed horizontally, and there are three capacitors instead of two in the PFC area. The back ends are much the same, possibly identical. Of course, due to the larger current capability for a given voltage, the current-reading shunt (R20) will have a different resistance.
Edit 2016/Mar:
Actually, the PFC inductor looks superficially to be the same size on 1.5 kW and 2.0 kW models, just horizontal and heat sunk on the 2.0 kW models.
5) The top ends of the voltage dividers (R20 and R10) are model-voltage dependent, and are calibrated in EEPROM. The DC side rectifiers (D1/D4/D5/D6) can vary with model-current. The snubber resistors (R33 and R4) have been observed to vary between models.

The capacitance and voltage rating of the three electrolytic capacitors on the DC side (near the output relay) are model-voltage dependent. The large inductor on the DC side (near these three capacitors) seems to have varying number of turns, and may have different core composition. It is marked with the power and nominal voltage of the charger, indicating that it probably changes with these parameters. There may be other differences.
i.e. can a 48v charger make 240v (assuming you limit the current) with slave firmware?
This would require a "transformer transplant". Someone has tried this, and I can't remember what the result was. I think it worked. [ Edit: that would be Vectrix150V in this post. Thanks for chiming in, Vectrix150V. ]

Once the hardware is modified for the different voltage/current, it would not matter if it's a master or slave or CAN version (assuming that you change the firmware to suit, of course). If it's a slave or CAN model, there is a slim chance that you could get away with keeping the original firmware. The problem is how they haven't strictly used the EEPROM data everywhere. You'd think it would be in their interest to keep the number of firmwares down, but they seem to treat nearly every customer as a unique build. All the "curves" are in the master firmware, so that makes almost every firmware unique to start with.
4. how does one obtain said firmware (and details on slave control)?
You either wait patiently for me to post it (coming soon!), or if you are in a hurry, PM one of us (Coulomb, PDove, or KennyBobby). We don't intend to sit on this; it's just I've been busy on other things lately.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:18

Original post by Vectrix150V:

Yeah I swapped the transformer with success (ie. it still worked afterwards).

Slave firmware is interesting, I did a lot of PIC microprocessor coding years ago to talk to GSM Modems via serial, wouldn't be too hard to make up a simple programmer that you can just have connected all the time.

Arduino would work as well, but I haven't had time to play with these yet. This would probably appeal a bit more as you don't need to make PCB's etc. due to the availability of prefabricated boards.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:19

Original post by z_power:

I'll ask this question here since firmware gurus are probably subscribed to this thread

Can you describe the algorithm for calculation of checksum byte in data spit out serial port by master, non-CAN board (the last one in 79B data frame)? I'm looking for elegant way of validation of received frames. I'd be grateful for math description or posting part of charger's FW code responsible for generating this checksum.

Mike
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:32

z_power;575666 wrote:I'll ask this question here since firmware gurus are probably subscribed to this thread :)
Very likely ;)
Can you describe the algorithm for calculation of checksum byte in data spit out serial port by master, non-CAN board (the last one in 79B data frame)?
Yes, I can.

All the serial data packets are the same. The checksum is a straight xor. The packets start with FF FE; these two bytes are *not* part of the checksum. Then there is a comms descriptor, like F0 for the "listen" data. This is the first part of the checksum. You can start with the checksum initialized to zero and use this as the first byte, or equivalently initialize the checksum variable to the descriptor (since 0 xor X = X). Then there is a length byte, in this case 74 (there are 5 bytes of overhead; the FF FE at the start, the comms descriptor, the length, and the checksum itself). The length is also part of the checksum calculation.

Next comes the actual data, in this case 74 bytes of it. Just xor the checksum variable with each byte of data. At the end of this, the checksum should equal the last byte, the checksum. Alternatively, include the checksum in the checksum calculation and you should end up with zero (since X xor X = 0).

In pseudo code; lets suppose you have the packet in an array called data[]. So data[0] = FF, data[1] = FE, data[2] = descriptor (F0), data[3] = 74 decimal (length), and so on.

Code: Select all

byte sum = 0;
for i=2; i < 74+5; ++i {
   sum ^= data[i];
}

if (sum != 0) {
  printf("Checksum error!\n");
  ...
}
The ^ is C's xor operator; in other languages, you might write something like sum := xor(sum, data) .

I hope I have the indices right. You want to include all the data (indices 0-78) except the first two.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:35

Original post by z_power:

Your explanation makes it look quite simple
It's not critical to catch every single frame in my application (simple controller for limiting power and switching off charging at given U/I combination); I could for example use averaging values from a few seconds but to make use of checksum is more elegant way and adds some redundancy.

Thanks very much!
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:36

Original post by KennyBobby:

Check out the Facts thread for some great firmware reveals--Mike has updated it and spilled the beans... He has done some excellent work, as usual!
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:39

Original post by ErvB:

Greetings! Coulomb suggested that this might be the proper place to ask the following question:

I have a 6kw TCCH charger that had blown a fuse in the master section output. It appeared to be a cold solder joint at base connection. I replaced it and it now works. However, in the event that the master fails, how difficult and what would the steps be to use the remaining two sections as a 4kw charger? Thanks!
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:40

I'll copy my response here for completeness.

The last one must have been the master. With a triple charger, there would be one master and two slaves. I haven't looked at that part of the code for a while, but from memory, the master knows how many total chargers there should be, so for example it divides the total current by 3 if there should be 3. So you'd have to change that constant to 2 for a 4 kW (2 x 2 kW units) charger. So I guess this belongs on the Firmware discussion thread:
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...on-134233.html


Now that I think about it, the difference may be in the EEPROM, not the main flash code. Of course, if it is your master that died, then one of the slaves would have to turn into a master.

The short answer is: it can be done, but it would be a fair bit of work.

Addendum: I've found a free 8051 assembler, so I may be able to make the firmware update process a lot easier. However, there are a few problems:
* The source code has to be in one file, no linking. But it has $include so that's not a big problem.
* All expressions are done in 16 bits. So even though it has macros, it looks like it will be a royal pain to handle floating point constants. I do have a few ideas, but it may take some time and it certainly won't be pretty.
* I've run into a "segment exceeds bounds" problem that has me temporarily stuck. Hopefully I'll think of a workarond and get back to it soon.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:41

Original post by Pdove:/i[
Originally Posted by Coulomb

Addendum: I've found a free 8051 assembler, so I may be able to make the firmware update process a lot easier. However, there are a few problems:
* The source code has to be in one file, no linking. But it has $include so that's not a big problem.

Cool, I was going to go another route and convert all the assembly into c code. Maybe it is time to get going.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:42

pdove;769122 wrote:Cool, I was going to go another route and convert all the assembly into c code. Maybe it is time to get going.
That would be even better. But is there a free or even reasonably priced 8051 C compiler? 8051 is one of the few popular architectures not supported by GCC. Supposedly because 8051 is "register starved".

Edit: also, the four address spaces would require untidy special handling, I think.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:43

Origional post by ErvB:
Originally Posted by Coulomb
I'll copy my response here for completeness. ...
Thanks for the efforts! My charger seems to be functioning well since the fuse repair so hopefully it will live a long life without paring it down. I have always wanted to be able to understand and repair things at the level you folks are talking about ~ but for now, I am thankful that you are all willing to assist. ErvB
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:44

Origional post by Angelito:

Good day:

First time diyer here.

I just would like to ask for advise regarding my TC Charger TCCH-48-25 that I ordered from EVLITHIUM.com in china. When I tried to charge my battery pack of 16 pcs of 180ah CALB Lifepo4 for the first time, the charger will not charge. It shows Red-Green-Red flashing lights, which means "bettery overcharged". However when i checked each cell, the cells are all within the range of 3.270volts to 3.383volts each. Far from being fully, let alone over charged.. What could be the possible problem and solution to this? Is my charger defective or is there a problem with my battery pack? please help.. Thank you.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:45

Origional post by Angelito:

By the way, my charger does not have can bus, only the red and black thin wires for the 12 volts power source.. I coupled it to LIGOO BMS to turn on/off the charger.. I thought the problem was with the bms..However, i tried removing the BMS and I hooked up charger to 12 volts battery, still the result is the same. The indicator still blinks red-green-red..
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 14:47

Any replies past this point have been lost, or didn't exist.
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by rhills » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 17:54

coulomb wrote:
Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 12:52
...We'll see how this goes; I can only ask for your cooperation...
Or else you can exercise your broad-ranging powers as a moderator and move posts to the thread they belong to :twisted:
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Re: Elcon/TC Charger Firmware: Discussion

Post by coulomb » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 18:33

rhills wrote:
Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 17:54
Or else you can exercise your broad-ranging powers as a moderator and move posts to the thread they belong to :twisted:
Yes, I can now. Remember that most of this topic is a cut and paste from the diyelectriccar forum, where I'm lacking any superpowers.

I say cut and paste, but my editing fingers are worn to the bone :|
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