Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

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Richo
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Richo » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 20:45

So now that Mitsubishi has an interest in the ev market with the I-Miev they now have plans to double battery capacity.
More bold claims Image
For some reason when it comes to batteries people believe that it will just suddenly get better even though all our technology has been a gradual incremental improvement.
Except for the tech we ripped off crashed ufo's Image

Mitsubishi battery partnership
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by acmotor » Sat, 15 Feb 2014, 01:08

Never under-estimate just how good batteries will become.

Gradual ? that was only while there was no focus on the requirement.
Batteries are just another technology item. When there is a need and a market, watch this space.

You don't for one moment think that China will put another billion ICEs on the road do you ?
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Troglodyte » Sat, 15 Feb 2014, 20:55

Any capacity increase has to be a **VERY GOOD THING**, nevertheless I can't imagine it would help the MiEV much. Those gadgets are fine for zipping around in cities but I dunno that they are the best way to travel in the sticks, particularly using the goat tracks with which we are saddled in the deep north. Actually they really aren't 'goat tracks' anymore because the last Goats Union AGM advised their members not to use the things. That said, whack a double capacity battery in a Leaf, Mercedes ED or even a Kangoo ZE and I'm all ears :)

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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Richo » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 20:39

Troglodyte wrote:...last Goats Union AGM advised their members not to use the things.


not use what?
Goats or Miev's
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Johny » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 20:44

Goat tracks Richo, Follow the vibe. Image

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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Richo » Thu, 20 Feb 2014, 21:04

acmotor wrote: Never under-estimate just how good batteries will become.

If I had said that Mitsubishi had plans to double the speed of an EVO from 280kph to 560kph people would on the floor laughing.
Fastest car in the world 440kph...
Or perhaps halve the weight of the car - same deal.
It took some 30 years to double the efficiency of petrol cars.

People have already calculated theoretical limits:
MTSE
Some of these claims are 10-50 times current Li-ion!

So double capacity is well within the scope.
But when claiming they want to make a "giant leap forward" and achieve this by 2020 (6 years)
Bold claims in my opinion.

How many years have we been told LiS batteries are just around the corner.
Even the release of production ev's were going to be next year for many years!

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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by acmotor » Fri, 21 Feb 2014, 23:24

Richo wrote:
If I had said that Mitsubishi had plans to double the speed of an EVO from 280kph to 560kph people would on the floor laughing.....
...
But when claiming they want to make a "giant leap forward" and achieve this by 2020 (6 years)
Bold claims in my opinion....


Not quite the same thing Richo.
To go twice the speed requires 8 x the power not to mention massive design changes in things like tyres.
To just double battery capacity is simply to double battery capacity, no other changes and no 8 x anything involved. (even same tyres Image)

The LEV50s in an iMiEV were developed what 10 years or more ago now ?
So to double the capacity in 16+years i.e. by 2020 is actually still not only feasable but quite lame in modern technology advancement terms.
Image
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by acmotor » Fri, 21 Feb 2014, 23:41

Richo wrote: ....
It took some 30 years to double the efficiency of petrol cars.....


Ummm, well even if you could increase the efficiency of an ICE to 100% Image Image Image that would be the limit.
Batteries however, what a different world, a storage method for energy that may not even be simple chemical reaction based. E=mc.c (can't find the squared) Not proposing present nuclear fusion, just reminding us all of the physics involved and the potential energys.

Looking at my 256GB thumb drive. It is only a small advancement from the 30kB 14" platter hard disk in my first PDP7 RTL computer in 1975.
10,000,000 times in 40 years. I see energy storage in the future as having similar horizons. OK, lets say 1,000 times less so I am not being too optomistic. Image
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by RIPPERTON » Mon, 24 Mar 2014, 12:47

Double battery capacity ?????
exactly the opposite.
Mitsubishi are going to re-release the Imiev as a hybrid with 60km battery only range and 1.2l caveman engine.
They are also releasing an Outlander Hybrid.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/veh ... ander-phev
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by 4Springs » Mon, 24 Mar 2014, 14:10

Not long now!
Image

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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Richo » Mon, 24 Mar 2014, 21:01

acmotor wrote: Batteries however, what a different world, a storage method for energy that may not even be simple chemical reaction based.

But then it wouldn't be a battery (convert stored chemical energy into electrical energy).

You'll have to coin a new word for this device Image
I'll copyright it later for you Image
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Hippie403 » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 00:44

RIPPERTON wrote: Double battery capacity ?????
exactly the opposite.
Mitsubishi are going to re-release the Imiev as a hybrid with 60km battery only range and 1.2l caveman engine.
That's crazy talk, how do you fit a 1.2l engine in an i-MiEV even if
you halve the battery pack size?

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Post by Troglodyte » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 04:37

More range is always a good thing for bushies but precious few bushies of my acquaintance would want a MiEV regardless of how its powered. The present model is probably quite adequate for city dwellers for whom kei cars are best suited. Seems an overkill to fit a 1200cc motor in something that started out with around half that capacity. Surely a tiny range extender option would be a better solution for masochists who want to use the thing for intercity trips. It will also be interesting to see what price sticker Mitsubishi uses after its experience with the EV version.

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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Richo » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 20:44

Perth to Adelaide is 2800km.
Even dual fuel wouldn't help.
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Johny » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 20:50

Richo wrote: Perth to Adelaide is 2800km.
Even dual fuel wouldn't help.
I dunno. The further you are from prying eyes the more easy it is to get some extra juice.....
Image

Edit: Not going to work for this idiot - he's hooked both cables to the same overhead wire.
Last edited by Johny on Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 09:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by Richo » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 20:53

Ah yes free energy.

But for safety better use a quadcopter and dangle the lines. Image
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by acmotor » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 22:49

Johny wrote:
Richo wrote: Perth to Adelaide is 2800km.
Even dual fuel wouldn't help.
I dunno. The further you are from prying eyes the more easy it is to get some extra juice.....
Image

Edit: Not going to work for this idiot - he's hooked both cables to the same overhead wire.
     

Actually could work fine. The three phase wires are maybe 22kV (13kV wrt ground) so he can set up SWER connection with a ground stake. He only needs 250mA for a 3.3kW charge (and a transformer of course). Actually safer than two 22kV actives. At that low current it may not trip the power authority earth leakage detectors on the line, although they may not be present as is often the case in country areas. The two hooks may just be because he is irish.... to be sure. Image

Biggest problem may be that there are no power lines between about Norseman and Ceduna.
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Post by Troglodyte » Thu, 27 Mar 2014, 00:15

Dunno about the mexican states but I'd be surprised if they are much different from Queensland. In most areas there are two sets of wires on power poles, the upper ones are 11kv 3 phase & the lower ones 415v 3 phase. Occasionally there are three sets of wires in which case the uppermost ones are 33kv 3 phase. Underground cables are all 11kv as far as I'm aware. Broken / cut underground cables are typically quite spectacular, overhead ones less so although there are a few examples of people having been fried. Its surprising how many lunatics attempt to cut them (underground ones that is, overhead cables are usually aluminium) live so they can steal a bit of copper, needless to say the same folk don't come back for a second go.
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Mitsubishi aim for double capcity

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 27 Mar 2014, 00:48

"Any capacity increase has to be a **VERY GOOD THING**, nevertheless I can't imagine it would help the MiEV much. Those gadgets are fine for zipping around in cities but I dunno that they are the best way to travel in the sticks, particularly using the goat tracks with which we are saddled in the deep north. Actually they really aren't 'goat tracks' anymore because the last Goats Union AGM advised their members not to use the things. That said, whack a double capacity battery in a Leaf, Mercedes ED or even a Kangoo ZE and I'm all ears :)"

We live on a single lane dirt track in the hills and the Imiev works fine. It's RWD unlike the Leaf thats fwd, heavier and much more likely to get bogged.

I you really are out in the sticks your going to be the last market that is covered by the EV manufactures as it's such a small market that its lost in the roundings.

That said (we all have different definitions of (the sticks) Personally my view is if you have a town within 500km then your not in "the sticks"

Kurt
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Post by Troglodyte » Thu, 27 Mar 2014, 01:25

We have mostly bitumen roads but its not advisable to get off the sealed surface in any two wheel drive (wet grass doesn't have a very high coefficient of friction). I once needed to get towed out of the (almost flat) driveway of a house I was renting while waiting for mine to be finished because the Mazda Bravo I had then couldn't get traction. As for 'the sticks', I believe both Mitsubishi & Nissan EV departments would consider anywhere more than 50km from an official service centre as being in Woop Woop. Not that I'd ever return to the rat-race, better to push the boundaries as far as they will go and a bit more. What size generator will fit in a Leaf anyway ?? Can't get interested in a Mitsubishi even with RWD. I'm not one for a humungous yank tank but some vehicles are just too small for my liking. Mind you, many years ago I had a Honda Scamp 360 automatic. That was interesting ... it changed down a gear when it encountered a match-stick on the road. An associate has a Smart car that I've driven a bit, glad its his and not mine.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 27 Mar 2014, 01:49

You couldn't drive on flat damp grass because it was a ute with no weight over the rear end and skinny little light truck wheels.

imiev has all the weight over the wheels like a old vw bug.

I have driven our imiev through the conondale nation park 4wd tracks, you just pick your line and take it easy. Got some surprised looks from a few guys in patrols with 30" mud tyres at a few of the lookouts.admittedly the small creek crossings are a trickle at the moment but a lot of people think they need a lifted hummer to drive on a gravel path.
Leaf would have less space for a load than a imiev.

50km....out in the sticks The suburbs extend that distance.

What district would you be driving from?

Kurt


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Post by Troglodyte » Thu, 27 Mar 2014, 13:24

Even a fourby has problems some places I go & that particular driveway is one of the them. I have a Suzuki now that has proven more capable than many other bigger 4 x 4s in tough terrain. My regular gravels include Boonah, Lost World, Kyogle, Murwillumbah, Tyalgum, Bridgeman Downs & Eumundi albeit not in the same week.



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Post by Troglodyte » Thu, 27 Mar 2014, 13:34

Basically I need an economical sealed road vehicle for travel mostly between say Chillingham. Bridgeman Downs & Eumundi which should be near do-able in an EV using a bit of ingenuity. I'd prefer to avoid dealership charging due to the hours however I have a few 30amp GPOs available in a few locations ... yet to figure if they are sufficient, hence the interest in generators.

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 28 Mar 2014, 04:01

Your looking at 120 - 130km each side of brisbane so outside the safe range for the leaf and the imiev for where you want to drive. A EV with a extra 50km range would be the minimum if you were able to charge at the midway point in Brisbane.

Doing the 250km trip in one hit with hills and freeways your looking at tesla model S territory. Even then you would want to charge at your destination before returning it's a 500km round trip - Chillingham NSW to Eumundi QLD. That takes a lot of battery or a lot of charging no mater how you look at it. Any generator that is going to put out any kind of decent power output and last any amount of time is going to be big , heavy and expensive. Not to mention loud, smelly and just a pain in the bum.

Kurt

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Post by Richo » Fri, 28 Mar 2014, 23:02

Get two and leave one half way...
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