Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
AMPrentice
Senior Member
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue, 05 Aug 2008, 19:30
Location: down south

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by AMPrentice » Thu, 23 Oct 2008, 20:09

Can it possibly come true?
Image

BETTER PLACE PARTNERS WITH AGL AND MACQUARIE TO BUILD EV INFRASTRUCTURE IN AUSTRALIA
Will Raise up to $1 Billion AUD to Fund Initial Network Build Out

Official site
Australia PBP no 3

New York Times

NYT

The Age
PBP - Australia
Last edited by AMPrentice on Thu, 23 Oct 2008, 09:24, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

No Queen, No Prime Minister, No hierarchical system to break down our communities
Never vote Labour, Liberal or Maggots like them.

User avatar
mattW
Groupie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat, 01 Mar 2008, 07:07
Real Name: Matt
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by mattW » Fri, 24 Oct 2008, 02:41

This is honestly the best news I have heard in ages. I am a big fan of the project better place model, and have been following it since the first announcement of the Israel network. To have it happen in Australia so soon is fantastic as it removes the difficulties of battery cost and limited range, making EVs better than ICE's in just about every aspect. As long as the cost of the battery contract is priced at less than the current average cost of fuel, as was the aim in Israel, this will take off. I would also love to see some electric motorsport with a battery swapping pit stop... that would go along way in bringing electric to the mainstream and breaking performance stereotypes.

The project betterplace website with videos from Project Better Place, AGL, Maquarie and the Victorian Government is here.

Times be a changing... Image
Last edited by mattW on Thu, 23 Oct 2008, 15:53, edited 1 time in total.

AMPrentice
Senior Member
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue, 05 Aug 2008, 19:30
Location: down south

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by AMPrentice » Fri, 24 Oct 2008, 06:05

I hope Australians start to produce products as well as there will be a big market here for controllers, chargers, motors and pretty much anything electric.

I really hope someone makes a charger and an equivalent to the Curtis 1238 ac controller. Our dollar is perfect for exporting quality products made here.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

No Queen, No Prime Minister, No hierarchical system to break down our communities
Never vote Labour, Liberal or Maggots like them.

User avatar
tdean
Groupie
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 20:07
Real Name: Terry Dean
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by tdean » Fri, 24 Oct 2008, 16:33

Yes I like their concept of changing over depleted batteries.

"These Better Place battery exchange stations are even more efficient and convenient than conventional gas stations. Each is roughly the size of your average living room. Like the charging spots, they are fully automated. A driver pulls in, puts the car in the neutral gear, and sits back. The battery exchange station does all the work. The depleted battery is removed, and a fully-charged replacement is installed. In under three minutes, the car is back on the road. It’s just like an automatic car wash—a quick, effortless, drive-through experience."

A great idea which eliminates one of a driver's biggest fears, running out of power and being left stranded.

I can see it now, the RAA drives out to you with a battery pack and slaps in a charged one in three minutes!
"We only have one future, and it will be made of our dreams, if we have the courage to challenge convention." - Soichiro Honda

User avatar
Thalass
Senior Member
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun, 12 Aug 2007, 07:29
Real Name: Ben Rypstra
Location: Perth, WA, AU

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Thalass » Wed, 29 Oct 2008, 23:36

tdean wrote: Yes I like their concept of changing over depleted batteries.

"These Better Place battery exchange stations are even more efficient and convenient than conventional gas stations. Each is roughly the size of your average living room. Like the charging spots, they are fully automated. A driver pulls in, puts the car in the neutral gear, and sits back. The battery exchange station does all the work. The depleted battery is removed, and a fully-charged replacement is installed. In under three minutes, the car is back on the road. It’s just like an automatic car wash—a quick, effortless, drive-through experience."

A great idea which eliminates one of a driver's biggest fears, running out of power and being left stranded.

I can see it now, the RAA drives out to you with a battery pack and slaps in a charged one in three minutes!


A great idea, but it requires that all battery packs are standardised, or of one of a few different standards, rather than the hodge-podge array of types we have now. every vehicle is different, effectively. This'd be easier to achieve once EVs are mass produced, of course.


Hopefully this will get major TV media coverage and put the collective public mind in favour of such a thing.
Last edited by Thalass on Wed, 29 Oct 2008, 12:43, edited 1 time in total.
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.

User avatar
tdean
Groupie
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 20:07
Real Name: Terry Dean
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by tdean » Thu, 30 Oct 2008, 00:50

Thalass wrote:A great idea, but it requires that all battery packs are standardised, or of one of a few different standards, rather than the hodge-podge array of types we have now. every vehicle is different, effectively. This'd be easier to achieve once EVs are mass produced, of course.

Yes I agree, standards would have to be agreed by EV manufacturers before this could work, personally the idea of one battery pack manufacturer reeks of *monopoly* but they're on the right track with the concept of being able to swap out battery packs quickly. Quite frankly its bad enough dealing with the various oil companies who hold us to ransom, I shudder to think what it would be like to have one battery manufacturer or one electricity supplier. Needs more thrashing out I reckon.
Last edited by tdean on Wed, 29 Oct 2008, 14:01, edited 1 time in total.
"We only have one future, and it will be made of our dreams, if we have the courage to challenge convention." - Soichiro Honda

User avatar
Thalass
Senior Member
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun, 12 Aug 2007, 07:29
Real Name: Ben Rypstra
Location: Perth, WA, AU

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Thalass » Thu, 30 Oct 2008, 01:09

A perfect opportunity for AEVA to step in and advise.
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.

AMPrentice
Senior Member
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue, 05 Aug 2008, 19:30
Location: down south

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by AMPrentice » Fri, 31 Oct 2008, 03:44

the network should never be privatised thats the main issue.
The gov should also lease solar panels for all the homes that can pay for them.
This will make the private energy companies take note.
Last edited by AMPrentice on Thu, 30 Oct 2008, 16:45, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

No Queen, No Prime Minister, No hierarchical system to break down our communities
Never vote Labour, Liberal or Maggots like them.

sparau
Groupie
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri, 12 Sep 2008, 18:44
Real Name: Shane Parkinson
Location: Sunny Coast

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by sparau » Fri, 31 Oct 2008, 18:40

tdean wrote:
Thalass wrote:A great idea, but it requires that all battery packs are standardised, or of one of a few different standards, rather than the hodge-podge array of types we have now. every vehicle is different, effectively. This'd be easier to achieve once EVs are mass produced, of course.

Yes I agree, standards would have to be agreed by EV manufacturers before this could work, personally the idea of one battery pack manufacturer reeks of *monopoly* but they're on the right track with the concept of being able to swap out battery packs quickly. Quite frankly its bad enough dealing with the various oil companies who hold us to ransom, I shudder to think what it would be like to have one battery manufacturer or one electricity supplier. Needs more thrashing out I reckon.


You shouldnt need 1 battery pack manufacturer - just a standard to make them to.

However i'm not completely into this idea cause it means you would have to replace all the cars on the road...

5,000,000 vehicles * x tons of CO2 emissions = nightmare.

The true environmental solution is to convert old cars and give them a lease on life.

mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 03 Mar 2009, 06:54

Cam across and interview with better place on cnet today

http://www.cnet.com.au/cartech/cars/0,2 ... 009_new_l5

gpsnettrack
Groupie
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 07:28
Real Name: Alan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by gpsnettrack » Tue, 03 Mar 2009, 14:57

I am a member of Better Place and cant even get a response from the guy in Australia. He is an ex Poli.

Al

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 03 Mar 2009, 16:29

If there was a standard battery pack, you could use it in a conversion.
Much like we have DIN stereo slots now so people adapt the dash of an old car to fit it.

AMPrentice
Senior Member
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue, 05 Aug 2008, 19:30
Location: down south

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by AMPrentice » Tue, 03 Mar 2009, 20:01

Its time the Govt of australia focuses funds for local production of a liscenced version of zebra battery for Oz PBP vehicles.
Last edited by AMPrentice on Tue, 03 Mar 2009, 13:31, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

No Queen, No Prime Minister, No hierarchical system to break down our communities
Never vote Labour, Liberal or Maggots like them.

User avatar
Johny
Senior Member
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon, 23 Jun 2008, 16:26
Real Name: John Wright
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Johny » Wed, 25 Mar 2009, 15:53

Me thinks Better Place may end up making DIY EVs a worser place - all a bit fishy.

moemoke
Groupie
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue, 20 May 2008, 04:47
Real Name: Andrew Pugsley
Location: Moe, Victoria,

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by moemoke » Fri, 27 Mar 2009, 05:09

I was reading an article in Wheels (Dec 08)car magazine about Project Better Place and I think it may end up that we, the consumers will have to pay the 'going' price for electricity to PBP, a bit like we do to the OPEC countries now for dino juice, so maybe things wont improve on the 'paying Mr Big' front but at least the fuel of the future will be renewable.
We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
we borrow it from our Children.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by coulomb » Fri, 27 Mar 2009, 06:47

moemoke wrote: ... I think it may end up that we, the consumers will have to pay the 'going' price for electricity to PBP, a bit like we do to the OPEC countries now for dino juice, so maybe things wont improve on the 'paying Mr Big' front but at least the fuel of the future will be renewable.

Well, but you still have the choice of making your juice at home, with solar panels or a wind generator, at least for journeys within your vehicle's range. So most of the time, you can avoid paying 'Mr Big'. It's not really practical to set up your own oil rig and refinery at home.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
Johny
Senior Member
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon, 23 Jun 2008, 16:26
Real Name: John Wright
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Johny » Fri, 27 Mar 2009, 14:31

That may be true for DIY and straight out purchase cars like the Miev, but I don't think for one moment that Betterplace vehicles will be able to be charged anywhere they don't want them to be.

Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:56

I have had several conversations and emails with Guy Pross from Better Place in recent weeks and the story so far is:

1. They have been working flat out with planning/fundraising. That's why the communication has been slow.

2. They are at the end of the first planning stage and communication should improve.

3. He is happy to speak to groups/branches. Get in touch and they will have someone come out to your meeting to discuss the proposal.

4. Brisbane meeting is currently being organised by myself. Probably at the Upper Mt Gravatt community centre in May. Details TBA - contact me or post in this thread to get more information as its available.

gpsnettrack
Groupie
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 07:28
Real Name: Alan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by gpsnettrack » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 20:46

Let me know when and where Justin as they wont answer any of my emails... they dont even talk to the guys on the better Place forums

Alan

send to
Alan@gpsnettrack.com.au

Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 21:44

No worries Alan. Guy said to me that they have been working 20-hour days sometime because of the global network they are part of. It has been like a non-profit or NGO rather than an ordinary start-up because there is so much work to do and it all needs to be done yesterday.

What I might do is update the old BEVA page on Blogger as a starting point. Then at least everyone will be able to access the latest information.

http://b-eva.blogspot.com

Would it be better to have a meeting from say 7pm - 9pm or make it a saturday from 11am to 4pm so those that have EVs can display them properly?
The future of transport is electric. Get on board or get out of the way!

gpsnettrack
Groupie
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 07:28
Real Name: Alan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by gpsnettrack » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 21:47

Evening is fine for me.


Alan

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by coulomb » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 22:22

"Would it be better to have a meeting from say 7pm - 9pm or make it a saturday from 11am to 4pm so"

I think I'd have a slight preference for a Saturday meeting. Less likelihood of other things on, more time, I don't get home till after 7pm most nights (but I can make an exception).
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

bga
Senior Member
Posts: 492
Joined: Mon, 01 Sep 2008, 19:27
Real Name: Bruce Armstrong
Location: Perth WA

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by bga » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 02:49

A battery exchange service is not something I would invest in.
It may work for a single industry like the taxi or light cartage, where the vehicles can be standardised, but I would give it little hope in something like the private vehicle sector.

With resource constraints, the lithuim ion battery may be a short lived phenomenon, with other technologies relacing it as lithium becomes more scarce and expensive. This would make a battery exhange industry very messy, particularly when the range of vehicles is considered.

A viable possibility would be quick charge stations - offer a free massage with every fill??

If the toxic BBQ gas bottle exchange monopoly is anything to go by, consumers will get mightily fleeced by the operators of scheme.

I would not want these battery barons reaching into my pockets every few days and would be a very obstinate consumer.

Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 15:31

bga, thanks for your input and even with my enthusiasm for this project I respect your opinion and right to share it.

At the moment BP is only planning on the east coast, being the most densely populated. The BP model is really for people who:

1) Don't want to use fossil fuels
2) Don't want the hassle of converting their own car
3) Commute less than 150km per day

There will still be plenty of non-electrics around for a while, but their fossil fuels will become expensive as the oil peak starts to bite. For instance, tradesmen will still drive diesel utes, but will have to pass on higher fuel costs to the customer.

In 1900, there were over 200 different car manufacturers in the USA alone - all producing different models, standards and ideas. The same thing is happening with electrics. Some people such as yourself can and will go it alone, and power to them. Others with different priorities will choose the BP model. And that's all OK. So long as we can prosper without oil, I'm happy.
The future of transport is electric. Get on board or get out of the way!

AMPrentice
Senior Member
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue, 05 Aug 2008, 19:30
Location: down south

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by AMPrentice » Wed, 15 Apr 2009, 15:28

Sounds good to me to evolve to electric in any way possible.
Now if only those 10 billion dollars Rudd gave away went into
a Fab for making solar concentrators or towards a battery
technology that doesnt require exotic materials.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

No Queen, No Prime Minister, No hierarchical system to break down our communities
Never vote Labour, Liberal or Maggots like them.

Post Reply