Government Rebates for EV's

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mjcrow
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by mjcrow » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 03:40

Simple question, yes no answer!

I would like to hear your views on what you would like (if you voted yes), what form you would like a rebate to take, for batteries, motor, etc. How much would be appropriate? Any other ways the Government, Federal, State, Local Council could help you and your EV.

Oh and if we could keep it on topic that would be great Image

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acmotor
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by acmotor » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 03:48

Free vehicle registration for BEVs.

I think this is more likey to occur than a conversion rebate for home converters.

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Tim
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Tim » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 04:58

acmotor wrote: Free vehicle registration for BEVs.

I think this is more likey to occur than a conversion rebate for home converters.

Actually ac, being on the 'inside' here in SA... I wouldn't rate it that highly, and for a few reasons. There is constant pressure from some user groups for reduced registration fees, and one of the main arguments used against them is that registration is 'an access charge' to use the road network.

Also, the registration component of the fee is actually quite small, with the major part of it being the Compulsory 3rd Party Insurance (well it is here in SA anyway) and I doubt being let off the insurance would be justifiable. (It does happen to some degree with Historic vehicles, but they only get 90 days use/year which reduces their risk exposure).

And, something else that I think will not help... vehicle registration is State based, and ongoing. That is, if a State gives a concession for EVs, then it will set a precedent for other 'zero pollution' claim vehicles to get the same. Also, the number of eligible vehicles will only grow, meaning decreased revenue... and once it is given, it will be very hard (read unpopular and bad press) to take it away. I doubt any State Gov't will want to set themselves up for that.

I'm not saying that it isn't an option, maybe a reduced fee would be possible... but 'free rego' would be unlikley.

What would be more likely is for grant type funding to be made available, Commonwealth not State, similar to the LPG subsidy. This would be more palatable to Govt as the cost or commitment is known and finite (makes budgets easier!) but can still be extended later if they wish. It would still be a bit of a slog, and I can't see a clear path of argument/justification yet... but I'm still thinking!

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Gow864 » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 05:24

In my opinion rebates don't seem to achieve much (other than filling the wallets of the middle men).

Consider the fact that the cost of rebated systems (grid feed, LPG conversion) over a very short period of time increase in cost generally equaling the rebate.


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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by acmotor » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 08:02

I hear what you are saying Tim.
I just wonder if a rebate will be for commercially constructed EVs and not home conversions. The solar rebate and LPG rebate set at bad precedent here.
Tell me more if you think the playing field will be level and a rebate offered to the real enthusiasts and pioneers of electric transport as well.
Don't take offence if we come out a bit negative as we are looking at the track record on such rebates. Image
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by woody » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 13:25

The big discount for EVs is the fuel excise. Zero fuel = zero excise. At $1.50/litre, 10L/100km, excise is about 55c/L = 5.5 cents per km. So 10,000km = $550. The more you drive, the more you save :-)
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by a4x4kiwi » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 14:33

This has been in the back of my mind for a while, for a year.

As woody says, we already get a significant 'rebate' by not paying excise tax. (Making the nieve assumption that the tax goes toward roading)

At the moment we get a free ride so to speak. I would put money on the government introducing a per km tax in the future for any fuel that is not taxed at the point of refueling.

This is what NZ has done for a long time for diesel (different rates depending on vehicle GVM) and for electric.

In my opinion, if anyone lobbies successfully for a rebate then fantastic. But I think this will not happen until we are paying some other per km or per kw/hr tax. And the longer the better I say.

I wonder how this works in the UK.

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by AMPrentice » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 15:38

I think a tax rebate on the batteries and parts would be good as we pay more from imported tariffs and taxes landed. This should encourage more conversions.

Maybe a relief at customs would be nice for EVers.

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Goombi » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 18:02

I have been pushing the gov for $4000 rebate or sponsorhip for car conversions....
After having a battle bout with Kevin and Albanese I finally had a reply to my at least 6 letters.

etc.etc.. The Australian gov. recognises that the Australian vehicle fleet is a major user of petroleum products and a significant source of greenhouse emissions.It has introduced a range of initiatives to minimise these emissions and their impact on the enviroment.

On 10 th june 2008 PM Kevin announced the first funding allocation from the Gov $ 500 Million Green car Innovation Fund. To Toyota which will commence the local manufacture of a hybrid camry at Altona Plant in early 2010 The Fund is designed to boost industry research on fuel efficiency and to promote the development of LOW emission vehicles.
The Fund is not available to individuals seeking to convert existing vehicles. Signed: Andrew Wilson.
So if you are entertaining yourself with any green money help from the Gov-- forget it..
Unless there is a concerted preassure from associations like AEVA with a certified petition Every member new or old will get as many signatures from sympathetic electric car enthusiasts and friends.
That's POWER

PS. don't our conversions fall in the same capacity of---Gov $ 500 Million Green car Innovation Fund??
Last edited by Goombi on Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 08:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by acmotor » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 19:09

--I just wonder if a rebate will be for commercially constructed EVs and not home conversions. The solar panel rebate and LPG rebate set at bad precedent here.--

Let me expand on this a bit with solar electric panels as example....

The solar rebate was for private home owners on their princple place of residence. It is now means tested. As PG says, it was being to successful.
It is not a rebate (susbsidy or whatever assistance) on all solar electric panels sold from 5W DIY private bug power to 100kW shopping centre roof. That would be far too successful !

IMHO, any rebate called for must be across the board for all EVs.

I agree the no fuel excise is a reasonable incentive but postumous rather than upfront assistance.

Free licence is achievable. It is just a political nod. It can be across the board for all EVs (until it becomes too successful !). Also, being state based, it will create politcal one- upmanship as the FITs for solar have. Image
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Sparky Brother » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 21:20

1. Registration fee Exemption for the first three years of the car being re-registered as a BEV
2.Higher Solar panel reabate rates for EV owners (private use only). Means test Waved for such owners
3. No London- like inspired fees for entering certain zones - City for example
4. No parking fee for such cars till the number of such cars exceed 30% of the whole private cars fleet in AU

I realize all I ask for is more than The Men in Grey wold ever digest. For me however it will be a real recognition of our efforts to do their job. Namely to save the planet! What I also suggestif agreed is that all of us staple three (or more) sheets together put the title EV Rebate Petition or something like this get them certified by a Pharmacyst and start collecting signatures from any one who cares!

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Goombi » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 22:43

Sparky,
If AEVA will instigate such a move then it will work.
When you collect 100 signatures where are you going to send it? But if AEVA dos then there will be great respect. Every memeber old and new should be sent a petition copy to print and start collecting with a headding from AEVA.The send by mail to Perth where it will be counted and presented to local member to present to senate or parlament house.
I like to say that this hard working Proletariat gets nothing from these socialists as you see. The most succesfull and the richest Toyota gets all for nothing , what is sickening that the research for which kevin so hurriedly paid was already developed. And was it compensation payment for the Antarctic fiasco after all. Strange ...

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by acmotor » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 23:25

Goombi,
Word a petition that will be acceptable to the financial members of the AEVA (at least most of them) and I will see it is tabled at the AGM next month.
As you know, if you wish the AEVA to put it's name to it then it must reflect the majority opinion.
There is most likely to be support for your suggestion.

Perhaps also liase with Cometboy, Sparky and others as well.

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Sparky Brother » Sun, 21 Sep 2008, 23:41

Goombi,

This is actually what I meant. An AEVA initiated and handed out Petition

Cheers
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by MikeG » Tue, 23 Sep 2008, 17:38

I'd be happy with free rego, frankly...

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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 23 Sep 2008, 19:26

The ACT gives 10% off registration for electric vehicle. Not much but at least it's some gesture. That would apply regardless of home conversion, commercial conversion or any newly made EV that might appear.
Perhaps we shouldn't make too much noise or someone might argue that electricity for EVs should have an excise applied in proportion to the excise on petrol! I doubt there would be any support up front for home conversion because it would be hard to ensure that every recipient ends up with a working, registered vehicle. By offering the support at registration the government can be confident that the support has all gone towards a registrable vehicle.
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Tim » Tue, 23 Sep 2008, 19:42

Just on the rego thing... my car (4 cylinder) to register in SA costs $595 for 12 months. Image

A breakdown of the total is:
Registration $95.00
CTP Ins $410.00 (Includes $33.58 GST)
Stamp duty on Ins $60.00
Emerg Svcs Levy $24.00
Admin fee $6.00

So, as the majority of it is insurance related, the best you could hope for is a reduction from $595 to ~$500.

There would be no justification for exclusion from insurance obviously.

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Goombi » Tue, 23 Sep 2008, 20:22

Work his one out... Engineers cost for EV aproval..

My fees are simple approvals are $250 for the first modification
approval Code plus $100 for each additional Code.
eg Engine change (LA1 Code) & Seating change (LK1 Code) = $350.
Where I am asked to assist in additional work beyond the simple
approvals, my fees are $100/hr plus any travel time.

Will $1000 cover the cost? How many codes?? and then one has to go for a roadworthy another $100 roughly..
And this is all to save the planet.
I rest my case

PS. How many AEVA members and newbies have a registered EV and using it? Hands up please and what did the aproval and rego -ins. cost?
Last edited by Goombi on Tue, 23 Sep 2008, 10:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by a4x4kiwi » Tue, 23 Sep 2008, 23:58

When I first spoke to the signatories, one said $2000-$3000 and the other $1500 to $2000 depending on how much design you need doing.

When complete I will finalize the drawings of my constructed components and include strength of materials calculations. I will also write a document to explain how I have addressed each aspect of the NCOP.

Hopefully this will reduce the amount of work that needs to be done by the signatory. Also, I will make sure I have data sheets for all purchased components wherever possible.

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by johnboy » Thu, 25 Sep 2008, 03:15

I wrote to the ACT Government as we are in election mode. As you know it is the only time they pretend to listen. I had two ideas 1. reduce registration to cover administration and insurance and 2. free parking with a sunset clause of 10 years.

They wrote back and spruiked how they gave a pitiful reduction for hybrid cars. Imagine saving 40 dollars a week in parking at least. Imagine it might cost the government nothing for a whole year and get good publicity but it seems to hard as the reply received was pitiful.

A ten year sunset clause where a sliding reduction in parking reduction provides enough time for transition and offset some of the extra upfront cost. It could be shown to be EV by the words Electric Vehicle put on the rego sticker.
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Goombi » Thu, 25 Sep 2008, 03:44

Johnboy,
$4000 is the minimum to cover import cost-rego-engineer- insurance and all GST
Go for the vein and do not forget you will only get one concession No second go. Kevin 747 is a lot of hot air. All talk and no action. You could be right about elections-- perhaps double disolution..
I need some statistics as to How many EV's are registered in Australia and how many in progress.. Can AEVA help me? I need this info to present as a fact that EV's are on the rise..

Small state Illinois in USA is giving to converters $4000 US... And Schwarzenneger even more in califirnia..
Last edited by Goombi on Wed, 24 Sep 2008, 17:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by mjcrow » Mon, 29 Sep 2008, 04:41

Some really great ideas going here.

A petition would be a good idea, but what exactly do we ask for? As Goombi stated, we really are only going to get one shot at this, if we do get any concessions whether it is a rebate or something else we won't be able to argue for any more assistance later.

A couple of ideas, what if after successful registration, we could claim back all GST on costs directly associated with the conversion, or the costs of conversion to be tax free (to be claimed with normal tax return), essentially extending your tax free threshold for the first year of registration.

Does anyone have the statistics on the number of BEV's currently registered in Oz, and the number of new registrations of BEV's in the last 2 to 3 years?

mjcrow

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Post by jpcw » Mon, 29 Sep 2008, 04:53

apparently in the UK you get free parking and you don't have to pay the toll to get in to London. Something as simple as that would be a good recognition.
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Mon, 29 Sep 2008, 13:36

Hi,

I think that what ever we ask for needs to be easy to implement for the government.

Free travel on toll roads would be fantastic but is there a system in place already for the private companies that own the roads to invoice the government for a certain class of vehicle - identified by the number plate? The e-Tag could not be used as it can be shared between vehicles.

Same for parking. Unless there were a law passed that the road and parking companies need to absorb the cost which I am sure they would love.

A tax refund might be easier to implement. Unfortunately the benefit is not ongoing. As we don't pay patrol tax, that is a huge benefit in itself.

Removing the tax portion on rego would be nice.

A rebate for newly registered vehicles might be the one to go for, given the precedents elsewhere as a lobby point. As long as it is available to home AND professional converters. This could potentially be taken advantage of by the certifiers but thats a risk we take. As someone else mentioned, the solar and LPG rebate set a bad precedent.

Perhaps the NRMA might be a good ally in lobbying.

Mal.
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Mon, 29 Sep 2008, 03:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Government Rebates for EV's

Post by Goombi » Mon, 29 Sep 2008, 15:58

Cancellation
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