Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

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teresah
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Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by teresah » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 12:17

Hi,

Our trusted (petrol) family Toyota HIAce motorhome has wheezed itself to a meeting with the undertaker.
It is well past an engine reco and have been scratching my head about whether to just throw it away
(a pity as it is well setup) or to try and find some way to keep it alive. An EV conversion may be the way to go.
I have followed the DIY'ers for 20 or so years now always admired them and hoped to one day do one myself.
Unfortunately I haven't been taking too much notice recently (mesmerised by Tesla) so have lost touch with the gear available now.
Also now getting a bit long in the tooth! :roll:

Anyone got any ideas/suggestions for me?

Desired performance is modest (it is a leisure vehicle only) and range not too critical. Jusdt need to get to a camping area and plugin!
What sort of motor (AC/DC), voltage, and controller does one go for these days?
I haven't found anyone interested in doing a conversion (in Vic) either, but hey, they must be out there.

Thanks for taking an interest.

Greg

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jonescg
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by jonescg » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 12:56

How much space in the floor of the camper is there? Seems a good spot to place batteries but I'm not sure how much room you have to play with.
AC motors of respectable performance are still more expensive than DC motors, and battery cells are better nowadays, not cheaper.
Some photos would be ideal if you can share them.
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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 13:01

I'm guessing like this
Image
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 13:07

Hmm I'd say Warp/Impulse9 with Zeva controller and 12 of the 12V60Ah LiFePO4 packs.
That's $11k for the main parts...
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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teresah
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by teresah » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 14:37

Yep,

My camper looks exactly like this photo - albeit with a few more kays on it.
My guess is there would be plenty of room under the seats in the rear for batteries
but that may be problematic for any venting during charging - not sure what the rego nazis
would say about this. Also not great for the centre of gravity? It doesn't handle to well as it is!

$11,000 for parts seems OK but then there is still the labour to do the conversion.
How much would that likely cost - and who could/would do it? Any ideas?

Greg

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jonescg
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by jonescg » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 18:00

Labour is a very flexible part of the conversion. It's more about how long you are happy to have the vehicle out of action, and whether the shop doing the conversion has the room for it during that time. Otherwise if everything comes together I would budget a solid 40 hours of car-time. Other assemblies and components will need to be put together before entering the vehicle, and these may be done outside of the workshop to save time and money. The battery will end up costing between $10k and $20k depending on how far you want to go, or how little room you are willing to dedicate to batteries. As I said earlier - DIY lithium batteries have certainly gotten better, but they didn't get cheaper. So it's probably still about $450/kWh but that battery will weigh less and take up less space.
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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Thu, 13 Sep 2018, 12:42

12 x 12V60Ah -> 144V60Ah -> 8.6kWh $5,760 ~40km range
I live in the city and most camping area's are way further than 40km.

Given the car is loaded up already I'd be surprised if you could even put enough batteries in it to go anywhere useful before you get to the GVM.

Any ideas how far you were hoping to go since you could be anywhere in the world?
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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teresah
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by teresah » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 11:27

Something is wrong with these calcs surely? Not sure of my battery nous but surely 12 bats give more range than this?
I need something like 100 - 120 kms to make a reasonable area to be able to reach.

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brendon_m
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by brendon_m » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 12:24

The rule of thumb I heard for a 144v lithium system is range is 75% of amphours.
Ie 144v 100ah will give 75km.
So 40km from 60ah is probably a good estimate. That being said a hiace has the aerodynamics of a brick so it'll be worse no doubt, especially at speed.

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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 12:33

If you just go all out for 150km range you'd need more like 27kWh.
So about $18,000 just for the batteries.
AND wait for it... 431kg.

So there is no way your pop top can handle another 431kg.

So LiFePO4 are out of the question.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 12:40

NMC would be 140-155kg ~$14k supposedly.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 12:45

So that's $19k and you still need chargers, bms, fuses, wiring, lugs, battery boxes, adapter plates, motor mounts.
and lots of labour.

perhaps all up $25k + labour
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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teresah
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by teresah » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 16:37

Thanks guys for your experience.
My guess is I am chasing a rainbow with this vehicle. Too bad.
Might just have to wait a few more years for dipping my toes in the EV arena
(and still driving Hybrid Camry's for defence fleet).
If anyone has any more cheery news I would like to hear it!

Greg

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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 12:32

teresah wrote:
Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 16:37
If anyone has any more cheery news I would like to hear it!
Well if you got a 200kW AC motor and 3-4kWh of high performance batteries it would cost about the same.
It may not get to where you want to go bit it would be a crazy drive :twisted:
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Faron Peckham
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Faron Peckham » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:00

Hi guys,

Any news on this Hiace conversion? I've got 6 Toyota Hiaces out in the Cape Verde Islands leftover from a short-lived transportation company I ran a few years back. 1 just runs diesel, 3 are converted to run on waste vegetable oil, and will stay like that for the time being, but I've got 2 more that need their engines completely rebuilt, and I've been talking with my German friends about doing an electric retrofit on one of them. These are 2007 Hiaces 5th Gen H200 Hiaces. The goal is to be able to run a 38 km route that starts in a city at sea level and ends in a city at 560 meters of altitude (Praia to Assomada, for those curious to look it up). Ideally I would like enough range to get there and back without charging, plus about a 20-25% additional margin. Alternatively, there is a 72 km route from one end of the island to the opposite end that could be interesting to run. I think 100 kms of range seems appropriate. The roads are high quality paved roads, but there are some seriously steep hills to climb.

Back when I ran the transportation company, we would have each bus run this 38 km (76k km round trip) route there and back 7 times per day, and we would have to change our brake pads every 6 days on each vehicle. It was brutal. Regenerative braking could be a game changer on this route. Maintenance costs were really taxing, so going electric seems like it could really change the economics. My days of running 7 trips per day per vehicle are over because of municipal policy changes that were enacted in response to my transportation company, so the rules have changed, and only one trip per day is allowed now, so I gotta make the most out of the constraints I have to work with.

I live between Cape Verde and Upstate New York, and frequently send shipments from Boston over to the capital, Praia. Ebay is filled with salvage Nissan Leaf powertrains and batteries, and more and more salvage EV parts are available each day.

I really appreciate any suggestions on this project. We would be looking to source parts in the US in December and January to ship out to start this conversion sometime around March in Cape Verde.

Thanks in advance!

Faron

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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Tue, 10 Sep 2019, 12:38

Faron Peckham wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:00
more and more salvage EV parts are available each day.
Send them to us in Oz :lol:
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Tue, 10 Sep 2019, 12:51

Faron Peckham wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:00
I think 100 km of range seems appropriate.
So if you have access to Leaf cells you'd need 40 as a bare minimum.
That's be 20S2P (152 volts) which could be a bit high for some controllers.

If speed is not your thing on these tours then you could go 3P.
15S3P (114 Volts+).

Or 10S4P (76 Volts+).
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Richo
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Re: Toyota Hiace poptop conversion

Post by Richo » Tue, 10 Sep 2019, 12:54

Faron Peckham wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:00
Regenerative braking could be a game changer on this route. Maintenance costs were really taxing, so going electric seems like it could really change the economics.
So AC it is.

Do you have any typical Specs on your vehicle (kW)?
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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