Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
Post Reply
Tony From West Oz
Noobie
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 21:08
Real Name: Tony Clark

Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by Tony From West Oz » Fri, 09 Feb 2018, 00:16

I have a quad bike with a dud motor. The motor and gearbox are in the same unit and it has a shaft drive to the rear axle.
I would like to convert this into an EV, fitted with a 48V Lithium battery which could be connected to our 48V LiFePO4 stand-alone power system battery, to provide additional storage where needed.
Where do I find what power is needed to drive the quad bike, carrying an 85Kg rider on a steep property, mainly as a form of transport, not a performance vehicle. I have a small trailer (about 1M sq) which I would use to transport fencing material, feed, tools, etc.
Regenerative braking would be desirable. Would this feature add much to the conversion cost?

Are second hand Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries available from domestic power systems, or Hybrid vehicles or EVs?
I heard that the Tesla EVs are powered by the small cells, as used in notebook PCs and portable power drills connected as a large battery. I would not like to use those cells. My wife has a hybrid Camry, and it is supposed to have NiMH cells, not much use to me though, even if I could convince her to let me use them (LOL).
I assume that I would need a separate charge controller and BMS for the Quad EV battery.
OK, thanks for reading thus far. I am open to your comments, especially those who wish to critique my ideas at this stage or those that make me research or think more about the project.
Tony

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2328
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by jonescg » Fri, 09 Feb 2018, 07:51

Hi Tony,
I'll reply in detail in a little while but there are a few bikes out there to get inspired by. Going 48 volts is a good idea too, samv voltage as the house so if a charger fails you can use a spare.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by Richo » Fri, 09 Feb 2018, 13:02

Tony From West Oz wrote:
Fri, 09 Feb 2018, 00:16
Where do I find what power is needed to drive the quad bike, carrying an 85Kg rider on a steep property, mainly as a form of transport, not a performance vehicle. I have a small trailer (about 1M sq) which I would use to transport fencing material, feed, tools, etc.
Regenerative braking would be desirable. Would this feature add much to the conversion cost?
I always see some wild numbers for Quad/ATV's.
Here is some upper and lower specs for for a small quad:
150cc 6.0kW 55kph 260kg+rider(175kg max)
49cc 2.5kW 45kph 43kg+rider(50kg) Junior quad

In anycase going slower with a higher ratio you would still be looking more toward the 6kW continuous to cope with a steep slope.
As long as you pick out a 3-phase motor regen should be part of the package.
Without regen you could stick with DC which maybe cheaper.

From the motor point of view a Mars ME909 DC motor is about $550 vs the Mars ME907 AC motor about $750.
So that's an extra $200 on the motor cost to have regen.

Tony From West Oz wrote:
Fri, 09 Feb 2018, 00:16
Are second hand Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries available from domestic power systems, or Hybrid vehicles or EVs?
I heard that the Tesla EVs are powered by the small cells, as used in notebook PCs and portable power drills connected as a large battery. I would not like to use those cells.
LiFePO4 isn't widely used in production vehicles or power systems.
But I don't consider the Telsa cells or Leaf cells any worse.
However using a different chemistry to your house could complicate it a bit.

Tony From West Oz wrote:
Fri, 09 Feb 2018, 00:16
I assume that I would need a separate charge controller and BMS for the Quad EV battery.
Probably more convenient than pulling it off your house etc.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2328
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by jonescg » Fri, 09 Feb 2018, 13:45

So a quick look at EV Album shows quite a few ATVs which have been converted to electric.

http://www.evalbum.com/type/ATVU

Several of them are running higher voltages, but that's for top speeds of 65 km/h - if you were content to roll around at 40 km/h then a 48 V system would be fine.

The other joy with 48 volts is that 14-series of lithium ion cells is 51.8 V nominal, and 58.6 volts top of charge. 16-series if LiFePO4 cells is 51.2 volts nominally and 58.4 volts top of charge. So the two are very comparable; you can use the same charger in a pinch. LiFePO4 is not very energy dense compared to most lithium ion cells (about half) so it might be better to use salvaged Volt / Nissan Leaf packs. Tesla modules are great, but they are 6-series (22 volts nominally) and the shape is probably not amenable to an ATV:
P85 module small.jpg
P85 module small.jpg (170.5 KiB) Viewed 1471 times
5.5 kWh though.

I'd say if you budget for a $1000 AC motor and a decent controller to turn it, you won't be disappointed. Regen would be a good feature for crawling down hills I'd reckon.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by Richo » Mon, 12 Feb 2018, 12:38

Ah yeah here's one
http://www.evalbum.com/4733
48V150Ah 54kph 32km 172Wh/km

:lol: Yeah it'd be a biatch trying to get a tesla pack to fit.

6 leaf cells wouldn't be too bad.
That would be about 12km range.

How far do you think you would travel?
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by Richo » Mon, 12 Feb 2018, 12:47

A string of 48V headway is about $398 with 2.2km range.
A string of 48V LTO is $240 with 650m range :oops:
A String of ~48V Leaf is about $1000 with 12km range.

edit:added leaf
Last edited by Richo on Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by Richo » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 12:39

Bit disappointing - I would have hoped some others had 2c to put in by now.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2328
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by jonescg » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 12:44

They're all on facebook now :(
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by Richo » Wed, 14 Feb 2018, 12:27

Problem with facebook is I have to like something before I can unlike it. :roll:
Its like a world where you're forced to take anti-depressants. :) :D :) :lol: :) :D :lol:
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

andys
Groupie
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed, 20 Jul 2016, 19:44
Real Name: Andrew Snow
Location: Sydney

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by andys » Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 13:39

I have a project on the backburner to convert a quad bike. I don't really need much speed, would be happy with walking speed, It is a 4WD model used for towing things around the farm. Being 4WD the engine has two drive shafts.

I'd love to get a direct drive dual shaft motor, but that seems unrealistic and instead I'm thinking of replacing the engine-transmission blob with a simple shaft and a pulley, so the motor can spin at more commonly used rpm.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2328
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by jonescg » Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 13:43

andys wrote:
Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 13:39
I have a project on the backburner to convert a quad bike. I don't really need much speed, would be happy with walking speed, It is a 4WD model used for towing things around the farm. Being 4WD the engine has two drive shafts.

I'd love to get a direct drive dual shaft motor, but that seems unrealistic and instead I'm thinking of replacing the engine-transmission blob with a simple shaft and a pulley, so the motor can spin at more commonly used rpm.
I've seen video somewhere of a chap pulling a loaded trailer up a dam embankment in an electric ATV... Sounds like a fun project and easily achievable.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Converting petrol quad bike to EV

Post by Richo » Tue, 17 Jul 2018, 12:39

andys wrote:
Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 13:39
I'd love to get a direct drive dual shaft motor, but that seems unrealistic
Agreed - it does seem unrealistic. :lol:

2 smaller pancake motors back to back perhaps.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

Post Reply