Rego for ev's

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
johna
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Post by johna » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 00:18

I was just pondering on the thought, how long will it take for the powers that be, to start charging more for registering a EV. just think of all the fuel tax that they are missing out on.
After all the mob we have in now would like to stop the solar panel fit outs, as it does not sit well with there mates in generation.
There is a saying that who ever controls energy controls the world.
And people controlling there own energy might not sit to well with there ideology.

It might be prudent to keep a build registered as a ice vehicle and keep a engine noise generator under the hood.

just a thought. Image

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reecho
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Post by reecho » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 02:27

We already pay an impost as it is.....well thats in WA.

That's because we pay base on weight. the equivalent Mitsubishi I car weighs less so it will be cheaper to licence.

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 02:54

Yes its kind of nice flying under the radar at them moment.

Perhaps you could carry a tiny little generator (800w) around and in the trunk (never use it) just so you can say it's a hybrid.

Doing less with more is the government way. So unfortunately it's a never ending quest for them to find avenues to make sure they keep getting more so they can do less with it.

Just a matter of time.
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Post by TooQik » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 03:29

This is an interesting read relating to the subject - http://www.ptua.org.au/myths/petroltax.shtml

I find the top two tables very interesting in regards to where the money goes, where it comes from and what impact a move to EVs would have on this.

You could confidentially argue that the move to EVs would bring down the cost for expenditure in the areas of Noise, Urban Air Pollution and Climate Change found in the first table. It would be interesting to then determine the impact on the revenue raised for both the Petrol and Diesel Excise and GST given a move to EVs to see if they could actually warrant a rise in registration costs for EVs.
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johna
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Post by johna » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 12:49

offgridQLD wrote: Yes its kind of nice flying under the radar at them moment.

Perhaps you could carry a tiny little generator (800w) around and in the trunk (never use it) just so you can say it's a hybrid.

Doing less with more is the government way. So unfortunately it's a never ending quest for them to find avenues to make sure they keep getting more so they can do less with it.

Just a matter of time.


The small generator is probably the way to go, a good little back up also. but that depends on what size vehicle you have.

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Post by 4Springs » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 14:10

Not sure what happens in other states but here your vehicle can go through its entire life without a single inspection. I'd like to see an annual (or less often, possibly dependant on vehicle age) inspection like in other countries to make sure that vehicles are still roadworthy. Part of that inspection could be an odometer reading. I reckon a registration fee that combined vehicle mass with kilometres travelled would be fair.

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Post by T1 Terry » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 14:36

The trucking industry suffered a distance travelled road tax many yrs ago, they revolted against it in the infamous Razor Back blockade. The distance travelled tax was abolished and the tax on fuel introduced to better balance out road use/abuse, now the shift to electric will mess up that method of collecting revenue, so back to a road tax in blocks of say 10,000kms with rego, I think that is how it's done in New Zealand

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Post by bladecar » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 14:50

I do not want to see an annual inspection.

I can annually inspect your car for a couple of hundred dollars.
I'll put it on a hoist and "see" yeah, yeah, oh yeah and then park
it for you to pick it up.
A noice little earner.

These cars are built to avoid legal risk. To do that, they go out
of their way to make sure cars hang together (with some parts made
to last a shorter time than they would if they'd made it for their
relative).

If we have to spend money each year, let's spend it on energy-
reducing projects, beautification projects, roads that are free,
birth-control inducements and stuff like that.

I do see occasional vehicles that should not be on the road,
"spewing out blue or grey or black smoke" but like the airline
industry, you have to weigh the bad up with the good and take
steps that make economic sense (for the motorist, that is).
Aside from pollution, when was the last time you heard vehicle
failure mentioned as the reason for an accident. Our vehicles
do not exist to maintain a comfortable lifestyle for a few people.

As a general rule, distance travelled (business included) could
indicate a cost amount, but it would include a crime element
because as Packer said, only a fool would pay more than they
legally have to. If your car doesn't show that you've travelled
far, than you'd be mad to pay. If they track you by satellite, and
let's face it, they will, then that's for another country, not ours.

And, as usual, in order to not stick to the topic, notice that
tyres are advertised as $59 ea (say), get 4th one free and in
the same ad. 4wd-suv tyres advertised (no price shown). And
these people can complain that a $4 rise in rego is a rip-off.

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Post by T1 Terry » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 18:23

As par of the rego system in NSW I had to take the Ford in for a pink slip, the mate that passed it before has since retired so the vehicle went up on the hoist.... rather embarrassing, my deafness had failed to pick up a crook wheel brg and rear uni joint, a chewed out radius rod bush and rust in the sill rails I had not seen in the walk around the vehicle inspection. The wheel brg, yeah, it would have become bad enough for me to hear it or someone in the car to ask what the noise was, the uni joint, well I would have noticed it when it fell out and possibly went trough the floor or bounced down the road and through someone windscreen.. been a few deaths as a result of that one, the radius rod bush would have just made the car difficult to control if rapid changes in direction were required, like trying to regain control after an event.... As a result, the rego was not renewed and the car will head off to the crap metal yard, this is an inconvenience to us, but less of an inconvenience than a vehicle accident where either someone in my vehicle or someone else was injured/killed as a result of my vehicle being un-roadworthy and potentially dangerous.

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bladecar
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Post by bladecar » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 21:38

Mmm, so you're one of the people who either doesn't recognise the condition of their vehicle or can't afford to do anything about it anyway.

One reason I'm reluctant to report cars (and I never have) is that I remember when I couldn't afford to run one, but had one.

So, what to do to protect deaf people from themselves?

One answer is to mandate 10 years for vehicle replacement, in line with parts supply.

You see, if you can afford it, there is no point maintaining vehicles to top level when, dollar-wise (eh, adverse effects?) it does not maximise your dollar value? :) What's the value of a camry at the 10 year mark? What's the point of putting new parts on something that may only be worth 20 times the value of that part? It's highly valuably as transport (if you can carry the running expenses (keeps the current industry running).

Your type of vehicle is everywhere (but still a small percentage compared to the 12 to 15 thousand dollar cars that maybe you should have bought instead of taking the one you had to your mate - why did you take it to your mate? For the same reason I would, because you knew your car well) but no government is going to put it off the road because they want to be elected next time (or never, if they do it without announcing it ahead of time (eh Tony?) But the people who drive your type of car can't afford to buy a new one. What to do? Not follow America's lead, that's for sure. $3 an hour, if they're worth it.

The majority of people will not take it to their mate but front up to the people I've mentioned, who will do what I said. Good for business.

I know there really is safety involved but what I said is true. Past the 10 year mark, on to 15, cars become like yours. You know that. So we need expensive inspections each year? No we don't. Not until our cars become like yours and then those of us who will always do it anyway will get around the system.

And then we'll get on line and use ourselves as a reason to have people observe their cars for a nice little earner.

You could then blame me for the next crash, or any crash where a part fault is reported. Planes fall out of the sky occasionally, you know, and they maintain those.

You've described an older car. It's a pity that your mate hid all those faults from you.

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Post by jonescg » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 22:22

4Springs wrote: Part of that inspection could be an odometer reading. I reckon a registration fee that combined vehicle mass with kilometres travelled would be fair.


I'm inclined to agree. We all pay for the roads - even those of us who don't drive cars. But when you do own a vehicle you pay a bit more. And if you live in Sydney you pay $20+ a day in tolls.

A heavy vehicle does more damage to the road than a light vehicle, so mass x km travelled is a fair way to do it. Annual odometer reading at time of vehicle inspection? Self reporting at tax time? Scooters and motorbikes can be billed at a flat rate due to the negligible impact they have on road upkeep?

Soon we'll all be charging our cars for free with the sun or public chargers, so the petrol excise isn't going to collect much revenue.
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Post by johna » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 23:35

jonescg wrote:
4Springs wrote: Part of that inspection could be an odometer reading. I reckon a registration fee that combined vehicle mass with kilometres travelled would be fair.


I'm inclined to agree. We all pay for the roads - even those of us who don't drive cars. But when you do own a vehicle you pay a bit more. And if you live in Sydney you pay $20+ a day in tolls.

A heavy vehicle does more damage to the road than a light vehicle, so mass x km travelled is a fair way to do it. Annual odometer reading at time of vehicle inspection? Self reporting at tax time? Scooters and motorbikes can be billed at a flat rate due to the negligible impact they have on road upkeep?

Soon we'll all be charging our cars for free with the sun or public chargers, so the petrol excise isn't going to collect much revenue.


If you think about it that would not be to fair either , if you lived in the country and only drove on dirt roads and have to drive vast distances to even go shopping, why should they pay for nice sealed roads in sydney. so anybody that lives in the bush are getting the short end of the stick.

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Post by 4Springs » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 23:43

johna wrote: If you think about it that would not be to fair either , if you lived in the country and only drove on dirt roads and have to drive vast distances to even go shopping, why should they pay for nice sealed roads in sydney. so anybody that lives in the bush are getting the short end of the stick.
I do live in the country and I use more road than a lot of people. The roads I use are not used much, but need just as much upkeep as the ones in the city. My feeling is that I take more than my share in that regard - I reckon every kilometre I travel costs the council more than kilometres travelled by city folk.
Gravel roads still require maintenance - the large grader parked outside our property right now has to be paid for by someone!

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Post by bladecar » Sun, 02 Aug 2015, 23:55

We live as a nation in order to provide services and spread costs among everyone.

Let's not get sucked in with business concepts which usually apply to everyone but the business. We don't want employees but we must have customers. We don't have enough customers so we need a bigger population. We have a bigger population but we don't need them sitting on the dole. We don't want employees.

We're going to use the roads but all those employees and customers out there must pay for their use. After all, users pay. But if we pay, then we might not employ anyone, at all. It's mattering less and   less.

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Post by johna » Mon, 03 Aug 2015, 00:21

yes gravel roads do need maintenance and i wish somebody would do some now and then, but nowhere near what it costs for bitumen.

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Post by mikedufty » Mon, 03 Aug 2015, 06:34

I remember a while ago some country councils ripping up bitumen roads and converting them to gravel because they couldn't afford the maintenance cost. Seemed like a big step backwards. But bitumen roads that are coming apart are a lot worse than well graded gravel roads. The mine access road to Mt Gordon in western queensland comes to mind.

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Post by EV2Go » Sat, 08 Aug 2015, 02:55

I don't know why people think that driving an EV is magically some way of driving untaxed.

Put tyres on you petrol or electric vehicle and the gov't receives tax is several different ways.

Charge the electric vehicle and the gov't receives tax, own your own solar, still have to pay tax on the purchase and maintenance of it, have it professionally cleaned and you pay tax.

Don't kid yourself into believing that the gov't will do without, I bet you get taxed a thousand times before this free EV is dead.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 08 Aug 2015, 03:45

No one thinks it's tax free just not high tax.

Fuel tax as a % of total ownership over the life of the car is a large proportion of owning and running a ice car. Most likely several times it's original purchase price.

$4000 in pv cost can charge my ev for 25 years+ even if 100% of that went to tax it's still significantly less than the fuel tax payed in the avarage ice car over the same period.


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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Thu, 03 Sep 2015, 01:17

johna wrote: I was just pondering on the thought, how long will it take for the powers that be, to start charging more for registering a EV...


In the ACT the rego is discounted. Also no stamp duty on a new EV. The ACT has a 100% renewable electricity target and actively encourages EVs to run on that. Our electricity is cheaper than elsewhere and 20 year power purchase agreements mean it should stay cheap.
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Post by johna » Thu, 03 Sep 2015, 12:32

In the ACT the rego is discounted. Also no stamp duty on a new EV. The ACT has a 100% renewable electricity target and actively encourages EVs to run on that. Our electricity is cheaper than elsewhere and 20 year power purchase agreements mean it should stay cheap.

You have a progressive government at the moment, pity they are not all like that, they all claim that they are. but when they are looking for more dollars they will screw you.They woo you for your vote, then every time without exception they crap all over you.
it only takes one election, an excellent example is this federal mob we have in now.

[ Edited Coulomb: fixed quoting. ]
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Post by Gabz » Tue, 01 Dec 2015, 23:31

apparently vicroads haven't been given teslas their $100 off there rego for a EV. so they've (drivers) have pulled out the legislation and pointed to the EV and got it corrected.

If you need to point and argue http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/ ... /s102.html is the Law
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Post by evric » Wed, 02 Dec 2015, 15:56

Hello all you Transport authorities around Australia - look what the Victorians get!
Please let all states copy this so we can all benefit - Anyone listening?
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Post by mikedufty » Wed, 02 Dec 2015, 17:33

Might be better to keep quiet about it in case someone notices we aren't paying any fuel excise.
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 02 Dec 2015, 18:39

+1, Lay low and fly under the radar.

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Post by MDK » Thu, 03 Dec 2015, 00:45

The American states have just come to that conclusion...

11 U.S. states with EV fees

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