I want an EV, but what?

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
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offgridQLD
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I want an EV, but what?

Post by offgridQLD »

"The iMiev on the other hand does not even get me to the nearest canyon and back up the Blue Mountains.
So an iMiev is great for 99% of my use, but useless for some things, but that's to be expected. "

Yes it is limited but dont ride it of completely for out of town trips.

We live in the CBD (Brisbane weekdays) and in the sunshine coast hinterland on the weekends. Our Imiev makes it the 1 & 1/2hr 105km trip up there every weekend(including the big elevation change) with a reliable 20% SOC at the end and a good 40% on the way home with 3 people in the car. Sure we can charge while up there.

I call the safe range about 100km.

It doesn't take much charging infrastructure to be put in place before the Imievs range could be significantly extended with little hassle. Brisbane just got it's first few public fast chargers this year and it's a eye opener to watch the Imiev charge in such a quick time and your off again. Though I admit it could be some time before we see a few outside the city (where we really need them)

+1 on the wife wanting the Imiev. My wife hates driving particularly in traffic in the CBD but considering you can drive the imiev more or less with one foot and one finger on the steering wheel she is happy to drive it anytime. I guess its a bit of a girls car (not the most macho machine out there ) Image

I don't think you will have any issue with two child seats in the back. We used one child seat for a year in our imiev. You would fit a stroller in the back. Though a compact one that folds down would be needed most do nowadays. Worth checking out though.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 06 Feb 2015, 11:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by eevblog »

Thanks for the responses.
Been discussing it and the iMiev seems like the best bet.
The 2012 model seems rare as hens teeth though, anyone seen one for sale?
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offgridQLD
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I want an EV, but what?

Post by offgridQLD »

Over the past year and a half there has been a number of 2012 imievs some new 0km like the we purchased for 25k and a few ex demo models almost new with a few hundred km on them that people snapped up.

Mitsubishi dealers cleared all there stock in au and now the imiev is a car that can only be imported on a one by one basis they don't hold stock of them anymore.

A quick Google search looks like all the 2nd gen 2011 -2012 have been snapped up from the dealers and no one is selling privately owned Though perhaps someone more savvy at searching will be able to dig one up.

I could only find 2010 models as a lot of them were lease cars and I guess the lease has run out on them.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 06 Feb 2015, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by eevblog »

offgridQLD wrote:
A quick Google search looks like all the 2nd gen 2011 -2012 have been snapped up from the dealers and no one is selling privately owned Though perhaps someone more savvy at searching will be able to dig one up.
I could only find 2010 models as a lot of them were lease cars and I guess the lease has run out on them.


Thanks. Does indeed seem that way.
If I hold out for a 2012 then I could be waiting a while I suspect. I might have to settle for a 2010. The good part about that is that there seems to be a lot of them, and I suspect they aren't moving quick, so maybe some good deals to be had?
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Post by g4qber »

Imiev and i3 are only 4 stars euro ncap rating
Leaf volt n Outlander r 5 stars
Tesla also probably 5 stars
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antiscab
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Post by antiscab »

the 2012 imiev leases start expiring this year (for the 3 year leases)

so probably not that long a wait

I wonder how many 2012 were leased out....
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Post by eevblog »

antiscab wrote: the 2012 imiev leases start expiring this year (for the 3 year leases)
so probably not that long a wait


Unfortunately I'm without a car as of today!
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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD »

Other than a little more age. I think the only 2 real negative's with a 2010 is the Regenerative braking isn't as strong as the 2nd gen Imiev.

The 2nd gen Imiev if you let off the accelerator you get progressively stronger regeneration (same as the 2010) The difference is on the 2nd gen if you slightly press the brake (perhaps the first 5% of peddle travel) you trigger even stronger regeneration. So you can get away with very little Friction brakes use and in some driving conditions (aggressive stop start traffic or hilly terrain) a little more range.

The 2nd being charging. Some modifications might be needed if they haven't already been done. To make the AC charging port compilable with the public charging network that uses (J1772 style plug) Though that wouldn't be a issue at all for some one technical (perhaps a god little EV electronics project)

There are some advantages in the 2010 though. It came with a lot more extra's that were scraped or a option on the 2nd gen.

2010 has much better looking mag wheels. 2nd gen's mags look like 1980's hub capsImage.

The 2010 has LED headlights.

The 2010 were all fitted with the premium navigation/media player stereo.

2010 has key less entry.

There are a few more small features I cant remember.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 07 Feb 2015, 04:08, edited 1 time in total.
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I want an EV, but what?

Post by Bird of Prey »

You could get a kit car body of a dream car for $5,000.00 and put in a Ev system . Or a 33 to 35 Ford or a Speedster an get a AC-76 an put in it .
Life begins at 200MPH , cops make me fell like a Zombie .
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Post by mikedufty »

I believe all the 2010 i-MiEVs were 3 year lease cars, they weren't available to purchase outright. Quite a few have already had the mod done to work with public charging stations. Mine (ex Vic DoT) has it done.

I think the 2012 has a built in immobiliser, whereas the 2010 has an immobiliser that is more of an accessory, occasionally stops it from starting until you unlock and lock it again, which is quite worrying the first time it happens and you think you are stranded.
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Post by carnut1100 »

Other benefit of 2012 is six airbags not two, buy yes, lots of extras on 2010...
My wife (just a good friend when I got the imiev, but we got together just after...) loved my 2010 so much she bought a 2012.
So far we have saved over $7k in avoided fuel costs, even taking the cost of power into account.

Hers is now crashed (Nissan Navara didn't stop at a red light....) so we are going t o use the running gear in a conversion.
We have a baby capsule in the back of the remaining imiev, stroller just fits behind the seats.
We have petrol cars, a ute and a minibus, so rare long trips we are sorted. Since buying the imievs we have as I said saved over $7k, and if we were hiring for long trips we would have spent less than $500 on hire.
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offgridQLD
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I want an EV, but what?

Post by offgridQLD »

Very interested in how the conversion pans out using the imiev running gear.I think the running gear or at least battery,BMS, motor,reduction drive, controller and rear subframe assembly is the strongest point of the car. I think in a more sacialy acceptable light body shape it would get the credit it deserves.

You must be clocking the km up to make 7k in fuel saving.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 08 Feb 2015, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by eevblog »

Went to Hunter Holden on the weekend, they seem to have the monopoly on iMiEV's and have 9 2010's in stock ranging from 6000km to 35000km or so. Cheapest was I think $16800
They mentioned that several people from the AEVA forum here had bought one.
One had the rego for Ryde council I think it was, so likely all ex-government?

http://www.hunterholden.com.au/VehicleS ... 2147483647

We drove one and liked it and will probably get one as it seems like the only choice for our needs at present.

Anything we should look for when buying one?
-Seemed like some had the cap over the ignition switch and some didn't. They said some people like to use keys and others keyless. I presume the cap has an RFID chip or something?
- What charging cables should come with it? I think someone mentioned that some 2010 cables had been modded? What should I look out for?
- Does the millage matter much? i.e. worth paying more for a 6K or 12K one?
- I looked for the child restraints and found two hooks at the base behind the rear seat. One was for the motor cover plate, and the other was small and didn't seem like a real robust child hook. Is ti that or somewhere else?
- Anything else I should check physically on the car?

It's nice having 9 to chose from in the one spot.
Obviously not really possible to test the battery pack range before buying?

It seems the sales people are generally completely clueless on EV's, so can't rely on them.

Thanks
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Post by a4x4kiwi »

Ask them what they do during a service. Then tell us how far he flies after you thump him.

A member was told they remove the computer viruses.
Violence has its place. :)

Ask them also if you can take it elsewhere for a service. They have told a member they cant take it anywhere else or the warranty (maybe extend, I don't recall) becomes void. Then talk to the ACCC.

All the best Dave. I am sure you would enjoy one.

BTW, It should come with a charge cable with a car plug at one end and a 3 pin mains plug on the other. (I cant remember if it is 15 or 10A 3 pin plug.

The mod you speak of will be so it can be used on a commercial charge point which requires a few more smarts in the car to tell the charger when it is plugged in and how much current it requires.

All the best Dave. I liked the one we had the use of at my last work.
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Post by eevblog »

Thanks Mal
Likely wouldn't take it back there for service anyway, too far, so would just forget any extended used car warranty (usually 12 months if anything?), and take my chances.
There are statutory warranties for dead on arrival or not as claimed etc.
What the heck do you service on these things anyway?
Check brakes, brake fluid, power steering fluid, aircon, what else?
Pretty easy to check fluid yourself I'd imagine?
So I'd imagine the yearly rego check would be sufficient for road worthiness.
BTW, does the "bonnet" open to get access to that stuff? I didn't try.
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Post by Johny »

Hi Dave
If the iMiev supports Level 2 J1772 charging then the "pilot" pin will be present in the charging connector.
Thats the Control Pilot below.
Image
(Image from: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 52823.html)

If it's present then it most likely is Level 2 compatible.

You may get some idea of battery health by just checking the "GuessOMeter". That's the Remaining Range meter. If they are not fiddling much with the vars then the one with the highes remaining range after a charge might have the healthiest pack.

Ideally you would fully charge all nine cars and take them on the same 20km drive hoofing it at the same places then take the car with the highest remaining range at the end of the drive. I doubt they will let that happen.

Assuming the above can't happen, with any luck the car with the least distance on the ODO should have the best pack.
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Post by eevblog »

BTW, what is good fair price for a 2010 MiEV today with various Km?
What do you think they'll take for them? The lowest ticket price is $16,888 and the most expensive is $18,888. They have a 6000km one but don't know the price on that one.
They said they sell well, but I got the impression that was BS and they have been sitting there a long time.
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Post by offgridQLD »

No need to change power steering fluid. As its electric power assist Image

Even though we purchased our Imiev new with 5 year warranty. I have never taken it to be serviced and don't plan to. The hand book has the service schedule in it and as expected it's very basic. Mostly visual checks/inspections.

The only fluids in the car are coolant (for liquid cooled motor,controller and charger) The service interval is 20 years! (no its not a misprint). The single gear reduction drive has 750ml of ATF fluid that is scheduled for 100k from memory. Then its just brake fluid every few years.

Check any other moving mechanical parts for wear/damage. Rear driveshafts, shocks, brakes, suspension bushes and tie rods. All very basic its a very basic design in its suspension so very little to maintain.

As for the child seat mounts...

There is two plastic covers that lift up to expose the seat hooks. one on each side of the hatch floor.
Image

You can see the hook below
Image

Image

The left side is a mirror image of the right
Image

As for what to look for in a 2nd hand Imiev. Other than all the usual things on a 2nd hand car.

I would pay more attention to any damaged interior/exterior parts. I could imagine that say a broken plastic handle or something small like that would be very expensive on such a very low volume car. There wont be any at the wrecking yards Image Even something like a broken/cracked tail light could be expensive and OEM being the only option.

Being a very light weight (delicate) car I guess check it hasn't been driven like a 4wd. Damage underneath. Make sure it tracks straight.

There has been very little go wrong with the Imiev's (touch wood) several members have 70,000km+ without issue.

Millage on the car would have some impact on its value but considering they are all under 30,000km its not really a big issue. As in I wouldnt pay much attention to the one with 15k vs 6k.

The only way to somewhat check the battery is to use a free Andriod app called canion. https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... nion&hl=enYou also need a bluetooth OBD scanner http://www.scantool.net/obdlink-mx.html. This combination gives to access to the data coming from the ECU and BMS. Individual cell voltage/balance, cell temp and a lot more. This can show a sick cell thats way out of whack/ballance. The Imiev has a very good BMS and typically keeps the cells within 15mv of each other over most of the SOC range and balances cells to within 5mv on 100% SOC.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 09 Feb 2015, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by mikedufty »

The WA dealer selling ex lease 2010 i-MiEVs (Skipper Mitsubishi) was selling them as factory demos with 5 year 100,000km new car warranty. If the place you are buying from isn't doing that it might be worth finding that someone does. Might even be worth shipping it from Perth for that.
Ours was $15000, 20,000km.

Weakest point is probably the lead acid 12v auxiliary battery, they will probably put a new in for you if it hasn't been done, but in the worse case it is not expensive to do yourself.

Ours had a note in the service book that the charger modification had been done, might be worth looking for those.

The ignition switch cap is just a piece of plastic, all the chip stuff is in the remote key which needs to be in range to allow you to turn the cap. Probably cheap to replace, or if the car you like is missing it, get them to take one out of another car for you. It appeared to be missing at first in ours but was just left on the seat.


Some of the ones in WA had quite worn tyres.

I think the range meter tells you more about how it was driven in the last 10km than what the battery pack is like.

The bonnet does open, but you can't see much except the auxiliary battery and windscreen washer bottle. There is a hatch under the carpet in the floor in the back that lets you see the motor and controller if you undo a couple of wingnuts. All coated in a thick layer of dust in ours but works good.

There was a recall on some of the compressor for the brake power assistance, might be worth checking they have checked and done it if necessary.
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Post by reecho »

1)    I would look for ones that have the pilot signal mod done. This means you can get a charge at regular J1772 level 2 charge points (such as Chargepoint) plus the ability to charge at home with a regular dumb cable. You get the best of both worlds. Note that the charge rate cannot be altered on 2010's unlike the 2011/2012 models.

2)    Check front tyres for wear. Many of these cars have had front tyres replaced anyway. Check date codes on sidewall. Slightly wider front tyres dramatically change driving for better.

3)    Check warranty provisions. Full 5 year or balance of new car warranty may be provided. As Mike mentioned full 5 year / balance on kms was provided in Perth.

4)    Check 12 battery status. Many of the cars have been in storage for many months or more. Mine was replaced as car was in storage for 12 months.

5)    Main pack: wouldn't fret too much if warranty is still valid. Other that that a full run down to 0% SOC (using Canion software and BT dongle don't use fuel gauge) and a full charge with energy meter will give a good indication of battery capacity.

Yes these cars are cheesy, a little noisy, don't have a lot of range, get fidgety with crosswinds and don't have bugger all on board tech.....

BUT

I am still wearing the EV grin almost a year into ownership. You simply can't build a converted ICE vehicle for the cost of the ex-lease cars. Mine will be around for a while until an affordable new model EV is available.

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Post by Gabz »

I have a 2012 i-miev fitted out with a car seat for a miss 2 and a miss 4.
I can take pictures is your not sure how they could possibly fit.

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Post by eevblog »

reecho wrote: 4)    Check 12 battery status. Many of the cars have been in storage for many months or more. Mine was replaced as car was in storage for 12 months.


I assume you mean "12 month battery status"?
How do I do that? I assume it's somewhere in the on-board computer system I can access through the screen? (I haven't played with that yet)
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Post by Gabz »

eevblog wrote:
reecho wrote: 4)    Check 12 battery status. Many of the cars have been in storage for many months or more. Mine was replaced as car was in storage for 12 months.


I assume you mean "12 month battery status"?
How do I do that? I assume it's somewhere in the on-board computer system I can access through the screen? (I haven't played with that yet)


he means 12 volt lead acid battery. so mutlimeter or the battery tester which they have which test it under load.

so they have a 12 volt lead acid does does the 12 volt systems ie lights etc. and the main battery for going places.
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Post by Johny »

...yeah - ask the sales guy to crank the engine while you measure the 12V battery. Image
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Post by eevblog »

Gabz wrote: he means 12 volt lead acid battery. so mutlimeter or the battery tester which they have which test it under load.


Ah, got it.
The lights should be an adequate load.
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