I want an EV, but what?

YouTube · Post by **eevblog** » Thu, 22 Jan 2015, 18:27

Hi
Some of you may know me from the EEVblog.
I'm a big fan of EV's and my old bomb Vectra is on it's last legs I suspect, and damn, I want an EV!
But what to get?
I'd love to get a Tesla, and have test drove one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RRKWORDPxM
but of course it's $100K
So I'm wondering what my other options are.
Seems that the most popular on Oz is the Outlander PHEV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... #Australia
But yeah, $50K.
The Volt is also around $50K
Both of which I could probably use 99% of the time pure electric.
But $50K is ouchy.

I have the perfect environment for EV usage. Rarely go more than 50km in a day, more like 10km most days.
Can leave it at home during the day to charge from my solar if needed (I can walk to work, but often don't)
And have another family ICE car for the big trips, so would be happy with a pure EV with maybe 100km range. But the plug-in hybrids are much more versatile of course "just in case".
A 2nd hand EV is an option too.

The other major thing is really want to write this off on business tax, and I need to talk to my accountant about this. But the idea is that I would be buying it for use in videos, so it should be, at least partially, if not fully, a tax deduction just like any other asset I'd buy for use in a video (which is my business).

Being an engineer I'd love to build my own, but I have zero time for that unfortunately. But perhaps I could look at getting someone to convert it for me, and those expenses most certainly would be tax deductible if I did videos about it.
I've seen the list of EV converters in Sydney, and it seems some are out of business? Doesn't sound promising...

So building my own would be great fodder for video material, but what if it's fairly limited and clunky, and brand new EV models come out this year and I've bought a turkey?

Blade seems to have gone out business?

So any thoughts?
Are there any compelling new model EV's coming out this year that I should just wait for instead of buying either a new one now, or embarking on a DIY journey with an uncertain outcome?
But I don't want to wait several years though, I've kinda got the bug to get one now-ish.

All input appreciated.

Thanks
Dave.

Post by **Johny** » Thu, 22 Jan 2015, 19:24

I would think that one of the ex-Victorian EV trial iMiev or Leafs would be perfect. Try car sales.com.

Post by **Greg partridge** » Thu, 22 Jan 2015, 19:52

The 2010 i MiEVs are selling for 15K to 17K. Can't beat that!

Post by **a4x4kiwi** » Thu, 22 Jan 2015, 19:58

Agreed. You couldn't do a decent conversion for less than a used iMiev.
Mal.

YouTube · Post by **eevblog** » Thu, 22 Jan 2015, 20:25

Thanks. That's 3 votes for a used iMiev.
Seems they are pretty reasonable value 2nd hand, and quite a few choices in NSW.
What's the opinion on a 3 year old Miev battery back?
Could someone have abused the hell out of one and you wouldn't know? or is the iMiev foolproof in that respect?
$18K is certainly in the ballpark of a decent stop-gap electric car until say the new affordable Telsa or other such EV comes out.

Post by **Richo** » Thu, 22 Jan 2015, 20:31

eevblog wrote: But I don't want to wait several years though, I've kinda got the bug to get one now-ish.

Yeah that's a bad bug to have

a4x4kiwi wrote:You couldn't do a decent conversion for less than a used iMiev.

True they are good value but it still doesn't make me want to go out and buy one.

We have EV works and the EV shop in WA.
Both, strangely, are selling a converted Mitsubishi Mirage.
There must be other ev's for sale around the country.
Perhaps ask ev motors.

YouTube · Post by **eevblog** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 00:18

So what about cars coming out this year?
And I mean ones that will actually be out here you can buy
Anyone heard anything?
Or have all the car maker been scared to release here with the poor results and lack of government incentive?

Post by **offgridQLD** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 00:51

I don't think there will be anything new anytime soon (year or two) in the sub 50k bracket in Australia. The BMW I3 is nice package but 60k+.

If you just want to get your self into a near new OEM EV at an affordable price my vote is for a low km 2nd hand Imiev. Considering A lot of the depreciation has taken place (was 50k new) I don't think you will loose to much if you wanted to upgrade to a better EV in the future.

The Imiev is ugly (particularly from the rear) but it grows on you once you get over the vanity and just enjoy driving it. It's a no thrills simple design but often surprises me with the thought that has gone into making the car a reliable well designed package.

The Nissan leaf is another option. Though more expensive 2nd hand.

ps...big fan of the eevblog and it would be great to see ev's become a part of it.

Kurt

YouTube · Post by **eevblog** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 01:04

offgridQLD wrote: I don't think there will be anything new anytime soon (year or two) in the sub 50k bracket in Australia.

That's what I suspect too.

If you just want to get your self into a near new OEM EV at an affordable price my vote is for a low km 2nd hand Imeiv. Considering A lot of the depreciation has taken place (was 50k new) I don't think you will loose to much if you wanted to upgrade to a better EV in the future.

That might be the plan. Yes, huge depreciation since new. My only concern is the now 5yo battery packs.

The Nissan leaf is another option. Though more expensive 2nd hand.

At least $33K it seems. Twice as much as the iMiev. Doesn't seem to offer nearly that much extara value?

ps...big fan of the eevblog and it would be great to see ev's become a part of it.

Thanks. That's the plan, although I'm not sure how much I could feature it? Any hacks available?

Post by **T1 Terry** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 01:34

What about a Prius ex taxi out of Qld? Then do a step by step refurbish and increase the battery pack to extend the EV range, while still having the hybrid option available.

T1 Terry

Post by **reecho** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 01:35

eevblog wrote: So what about cars coming out this year?

The only new EV on the radar in the Holden Spark EV according to a contact at Holden. 100Kw and 542Nm of torque.......yes please. Renault Zoe is off the table. Tesla Model X in couple of years.

eevblog wrote: Or have all the car maker been scared to release here with the poor results and lack of government incentive?

Govermant incentives would stimulate sales. More charging stations will as well.

Post by **reecho** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 01:44

eevblog wrote: Thanks. That's the plan, although I'm not sure how much I could feature it? Any hacks available?

One of the limiting factors with the I-Miev is the 3.3kw on board charging. One chap has tapped into the DC input and added a 50A charger. CAN-BUS can be snooped now with software called CANion. Once the 2010 cars are out of warranty I will expect battery options to appear that give a good range boost.

Post by **offgridQLD** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 02:13

"One of the limiting factors with the I-Miev is the 3.3kw on board charging"

That's not a real limitation considering all AU imiev's come stock with CHAdeMO (50kw) DC fast charging socket on the passenger side and a few DC fast charges are starting to pop up.

Canion a android based application along with a OBD scan tool gives you live cell level detailed data on the cars battery.

Kurt

YouTube · Post by **eevblog** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 02:14

T1 Terry wrote: What about a Prius ex taxi out of Qld? Then do a step by step refurbish and increase the battery pack to extend the EV range, while still having the hybrid option available.
T1 Terry

Don't know about refurb Taxi's, but I just saw this:
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/detai ... 1483/?Cr=6
7 seat Prius V
Had no idea Prius made a 7 seater wagon!
Can the Prius's be used as a true plug-in EV these days? Or just the stupid old non plug-in hybrid?

YouTube · Post by **eevblog** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 02:19

reecho wrote: One of the limiting factors with the I-Miev is the 3.3kw on board charging.

That's actually exactly opposite to my requirement.
I'd prefer 10A maximum charging so it can be used with any power point.
I know the iMiev has a 15A plug, but does it actually draw 15A, or just 10A
I recall that one of the cars did, either the iMiev or the LEAF?
And that the 15A socket was just a gimmick to ensure that adequate wiring was in place, but in reality it only charged at 10A?

Post by **offgridQLD** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 02:26

The the 2012 Imiev consumes 2200w from the wall. Just under 10A using the stock EVSE (charge cable) that came with it.

Aftermarket EVSE charge cable can be made (DIY) or purchased with selectable charge rate. Just sends a signal to the On board charger telling it what rate to charge at.

Kurt

Post by **T1 Terry** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 02:46

eevblog wrote:
T1 Terry wrote: What about a Prius ex taxi out of Qld? Then do a step by step refurbish and increase the battery pack to extend the EV range, while still having the hybrid option available.
T1 Terry

Don't know about refurb Taxi's, but I just saw this:
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/detai ... 1483/?Cr=6
7 seat Prius V
Had no idea Prius made a 7 seater wagon!
Can the Prius's be used as a true plug-in EV these days? Or just the stupid old non plug-in hybrid?

There are quite a few plug in battery conversions available, both locally and ex USA. The refurbish required is generally new or good second hand door trims, a clean up of the paint work and maybe a few minor mechanical fixes, but generally nothing major. These ex taxis have just reached their 6 yr old status so they can no longer be used as taxis. You can pick up quite a good unit for under $5,000 on Gumtree
A lot of wrecks are appearing in the yards so S/H parts are available

T1 Terry

Post by **reecho** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 05:33

eevblog wrote:
reecho wrote: One of the limiting factors with the I-Miev is the 3.3kw on board charging.

That's actually exactly opposite to my requirement.
I'd prefer 10A maximum charging so it can be used with any power point.
I know the iMiev has a 15A plug, but does it actually draw 15A, or just 10A
I recall that one of the cars did, either the iMiev or the LEAF?
And that the 15A socket was just a gimmick to ensure that adequate wiring was in place, but in reality it only charged at 10A?

Note the 2010 I-mievs charge at full rate (around 12-13 amps) and the later 2011/2012 models charge at 10 amps. Most of the 2010's also do not utilise J1772 pilot signal so no EVSE required just dumb power cable.

Pilot can be added though and I am looking at that at the moment for my 2010...

Post by **reecho** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 05:35

offgridQLD wrote: "One of the limiting factors with the I-Miev is the 3.3kw on board charging"

That's not a real limitation considering all AU imiev's come stock with CHAdeMO (50kw) DC fast charging socket on the passenger side and a few DC fast charges are starting to pop up.

Canion a android based application along with a OBD scan tool gives you live cell level detailed data on the cars battery.

Kurt

Unfortunately the only DCFC in Perth (Veefil) has bitten the dust and is waiting for repair.....sometime next week I believe...

Post by **offgridQLD** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 06:19

I tried out the new Veefil DC fast charger at Brisbane BMW on Wednesday night worked great.Sure charges the imiev's smallish 16kwh battery in a hurry.

Kurt

Post by **Gabz** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 14:07

the summary of under $50k

2010 i-miev (used)15-20k
2012 i-miev (used)20-25k
LEAF (used) 30-40k
LEAF (new) 39,990 drive away limited colours.

over $50k
Tesla model s
BMW i3 i8
Holden Volt
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
Porsche plug in hybrids

Post by **MrD** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 16:54

Hi Noobie,
If you want to go pure electric, a second hand MiEV is the go.
As per earlier posts, the 2012 model is limited to 10amps and seems to get a bit more range than the 2010 model.
I have had my 2012 MiEV nearly two years, with over 30,000kms and am seeing a negligible drop in range. I only charge when the battery is less than half, and then fully charge it up.....
If you need a Hybrid for the occasional long trip, a low km Holden Volt is about to come on the market here in NSW, and you could get this for around k$39....
Good Luck !

Post by **g4qber** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 21:18

Audi A3 Etron coming mid year hopefully max speed 225kmh
Volt 169
I3 150

I3 75k drive away (da)
I3 rex 80k da

Outlander Phev 50k
Phev aspire 55k

My white volt 38k. 30k kms on clock
Black volt on Carsales 39k private seller

Cheaper volt 35k 40k kms
http://carsales.mobi/cars/results?q=(Service%3D%5BCarsales%5D%26(Make%3D%5BHolden%5D%26Model%3D%5BVolt%5D))&sort=~Price

Post by **ohmboy** » Fri, 23 Jan 2015, 23:21

If you are a "hands on kind a guy" I don't think you'll find much satisfaction with a mass produced EV. There is a very active sub-group here in Sydney passionate about exploring the latest technology and creating EVs that express your individuality. It takes a bit of time and money but the end result is well worth the effort. There are also a few converted cars for sale that usually just require batteries.

YouTube · Post by **eevblog** » Sat, 24 Jan 2015, 01:27

ohmboy wrote: If you are a "hands on kind a guy" I don't think you'll find much satisfaction with a mass produced EV. There is a very active sub-group here in Sydney passionate about exploring the latest technology and creating EVs that express your individuality. It takes a bit of time and money but the end result is well worth the effort. There are also a few converted cars for sale that usually just require batteries.

I am a hands on guy, I do run the world's biggest engineering blog after all, but spare time is something I have very little of.