Holy Hydro Batman

Post by **g4qber** » Thu, 26 Sep 2013, 23:36

http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/#!scienc ... kits/c1z3u

"
New breakthrough in 2013: a safe hydrogen solution for classrooms, using an on-demand system, producing it when needed. No need to store compressed gases!
"

I gotta get one.

Post by **Johny** » Fri, 27 Sep 2013, 16:36

Ha! Love the video at the end.
They're pushing Platinum so still expensive.

Post by **g4qber** » Wed, 04 Dec 2013, 19:35

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-re ... 2_20131125

looks like Hyundai, Toyota, Mercedes, Honda and GM are going the hydrogen route.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013112 ... z2mTQx90Ad

Post by **Johny** » Wed, 04 Dec 2013, 19:43

I tend to agree with Robert:
http://llewblog.squarespace.com/electri ... lsh*t.html
The only advantage of Hydrogen is that it preserves a similar infrastructure to petrol/diesel. We all love to pump explosive liquids around the place. IMO of course...

Edit: Well, the link doesn't work because the forum software doesn't like the last word and keeps substituting a * for the 'i'.
So here is the link for the Electric part of his blog. The Hydrogen topic is about four topics down. This is a good blog to check on every now and then anyway.
http://llewblog.squarespace.com/electric-cars/
OR
click the link then correct the spelling of bullsh*t.

Post by **g4qber** » Wed, 04 Dec 2013, 22:06

No word censorship on ozleaf forum

http://ozleaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?a ... thread=224

Post by **g4qber** » Fri, 06 Dec 2013, 15:37

free hydrogen with hyundai ix35 / tucson FCEV for the life of the lease
found this out from transport evolved 176

http://www.caradvice.com.au/261349/hyun ... ogen-fuel/

http://www.hyundai.com.au/about-hyundai ... rs-in-2014

http://insideevs.com/hyundai-follows-te ... -electric/

Nissan vs Toyota, BEV vs FCEV
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013112 ... z2me9LcSmz

Post by **Johny** » Fri, 06 Dec 2013, 15:50

The insiders article (third link) points out that the installation of Hydrogen fueling sites has stagnated in the USA - whereas Tesla's supercharger installations continue to rise.

Post by **g4qber** » Fri, 06 Dec 2013, 16:17

indeed
I like how
tesla are "doing" while hydrogen crew so far are just "saying"

Ooh just had an OOTB idea, perhaps we can get some $$$ from Clive Palmer since he prefers electric cars to the NBN

http://www.news.com.au/national/clive-p ... 6665883407

Post by **bga** » Thu, 02 Jan 2014, 18:01

The worrying thing about "sir Clive" is that he is so inconsistent.

Just when you think you've got him neatly boxed next to Barnaby Joyce, he comes out with something that makes utter sense and is in the national interest.

[Edit + following]

Fuel cells ~ fool cells!

The autonews story says: "Rival auto executives see a bit of wide-eyed folly".

An analysis of the overall efficiency of a sustainable Hydrogen fuel system reveals that it is lousy, 3 or 4 times less efficient than electrical distribution and batteries. This fact indicates that the agenda has little to do with the viability of Hydrogen fuel cycles, and a lot to do with continuation of the producer-consumer model that is essential to the survival of oil companies like Shell.

It would make a whole lot more sense to electrify the vehicle fleet and make very limited use of hydrocarbons that are a lot easier to handle and transport than hydrogen.

It's not so much a folly as a continuation of what killed the EV1.

Post by **coulomb** » Thu, 02 Jan 2014, 18:44

g4qber wrote: free hydrogen with hyundai ix35 / tucson FCEV for the life of the lease

I would call that "included in the price", rather than "free". Sure, there is no kilometre limit, so in that sense if you drive it a lot, you get the last so many km free.

I was envisaging receiving little tubes of hydrogen in the mail that you somehow snap in to the car. It just wouldn't work at so many levels.

Post by **Peter C in Canberra** » Fri, 03 Jan 2014, 00:33

bga wrote: The worrying thing about "sir Clive" is that he is so inconsistent.

Just when you think you've got him neatly boxed next to Barnaby Joyce, he comes out with something that makes utter sense and is in the national interest….

I guess if he talks long enough some of it will make sense.
Perhaps he wants us to have EVs so he can sell more coal?

Post by **bga** » Mon, 06 Jan 2014, 18:28

Peter C in Canberra wrote:I guess if he talks long enough some of it will make sense.
Perhaps he wants us to have EVs so he can sell more coal?

Unlike a true politician, Clive slips up every now and then

I would expect that coal has something to do with it. At least Evs aren't tied to an umbilical in the same way as H2 cars are and can traitorously use renewable energy instead.

Speaking of covert agendas...

What's going on with Hydrogen? It has risen from the dead again, like a flesh-eating zombie apocalypse

We should note that Elon Musk calls them 'fool cells', of course he makes a battery vehicle, but I don't believe that Tesla is wed to the battery and would use fool cells if there was a compelling reason to do so.

Some of these reasons not to may include:
a) The windmill to wheel energy efficiency is between 1/3 and 1/4 that for a grid-battery vehicle.
b) Fuel cells are low power devices. See EFOY's products. Ballard is a vehicle power system maker and has a 150kw unit that weighs 400kg and is bulky, suitable for a buses. (A lot of development would be needed to shrink this substantially.
c) Batteries will still be needed in addition to a fuel cell stack. More likely to be Prius than Tesla size.
d) There is no delivery infrastructure for H2.
e) H2 is dangerous. It has the the widest combustibility range of any compound. Fortunately, it does rise in air and burns with a transparent flame.

Why do car makers persist?

Post by **Peter C in Canberra** » Mon, 06 Jan 2014, 18:40

bga wrote: ...What's going on with Hydrogen? It has risen from the dead again, like a flesh-eating zombie apocalypse...

Every time I have done a show and tell with my converted EV at least one opinionated person (always male and over 60) tells me "…of course, hydrogen is the way to go…".

Post by **Johny** » Mon, 06 Jan 2014, 19:00

Peter C in Canberra wrote: Every time I have done a show and tell with my converted EV at least one opinionated person (always male and over 60) tells me "…of course, hydrogen is the way to go…".

Yes... well of course Peter their always appears to be someone who can tell you just about everything you did wrong - I find. Then even if they didn't so it better in their minds I get "Oh, I'm surprised the engineer approved that!".

Edit: (Sorry - pet gripe of mine)

Post by **Johny** » Mon, 06 Jan 2014, 19:09

bga wrote:...
Why do car makers persist?

I'm getting these kind of questions at work at the moment.
Why it re-emerges? I'm guessing some of the reasons are:
- It preserves the infrastructure (at least similar)
- the govt can tax it
- the delivery guys get to keep their jobs
- people understand how to pump their vehicle full of explosives
- one way or the other, car manufacturers have to find a way to differentiate their products

Post by **Peter C in Canberra** » Mon, 06 Jan 2014, 20:11

Johny wrote: ... I get "Oh, I'm surprised the engineer approved that!"...

I'm pleased to say (showing off) I have never got that!