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eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Wed, 01 May 2013, 13:00
by Nevilleh
Last year, I arranged the importation of an eRider electric motorcycle/scooter for a fellow with no experience of either EVs or importation and I thought it might be quite a good machine - how wrong I was!
When it did arrive, I found the build quality quite shoddy, with panels not lining up, bolts missing and a hydraulic fluid (brake) leak due to the seal not being fitted correctly.
It was supposed to do 100 kph but I never could get it over about 88 kph. However, its owner was fairly pleased until he found it would only go about 50 kms on a charge instead of the claimed 90 or so. It turned out to have a faulty cell in the battery! It was very difficult to persuade the manufacturer that this was so, but eventually and grudgingly, he sent a replacement cell. This was duly fitted and the range went up to about 90 or so kms.
Then, last month, the owner informed me the thing had caught fire and was totally destroyed! He reckoned it was just sitting outside, not being used, not charging or anything and it just burst into flames!
The manufacturer has refused to do anything about it, claiming it is not a manufacturing fault and he also refused to refund the labour charges for the cell replacement, which should have been covered by his warranty.
Anyone thinking of buying one of these things needs to be very aware of the risks involved and the poor quality, non-existent service and poor performance of the machine precludes me from ever considering one again. The company is not doing the EV industry any favours, that's for sure.

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Wed, 01 May 2013, 15:14
by E-STATION
Was this bike imported directly from China or bought through an Australian distributor?

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Wed, 01 May 2013, 15:31
by Johny
E-STATION wrote: Was this bike imported directly from China or bought through an Australian distributor?
Nevilleh wrote:Last year, I arranged the importation of an eRider electric...
Besides which - Nevilleh's member profile says he's in New Zealand.

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Wed, 01 May 2013, 21:03
by Richo
Design flaws are not manufacturing defects Image

Bit of a shocker catching fire tho.

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Wed, 01 May 2013, 21:09
by Johny
Who was it a couple of days ago that posted how most eBike and kit manufacturers get away without BMSs?

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Thu, 02 May 2013, 00:21
by Richo
PlanB

I mentioned that China may not include them since they don't care about it (or your safety)

So they get away with it until they burst into flames - then tell you it's not their problem.

Even if it had a BMS if it's not in use the BMS probably won't save it anyway.

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Sat, 04 May 2013, 02:09
by T1 Terry
Any clues on what type of batteries were used? I'm wondering if it was a battery failure or a wiring issue.

T1 Terry

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Sat, 04 May 2013, 03:15
by Johny
I just walked past Dominos in Box Hill (Victoria) and they have four brand new(ish) eRider scooters lined up on the pavement with their logo on them. I'll walk on the other side of the road from now on. They are eRider lightning (something).

Edit: road!

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Sat, 04 May 2013, 03:29
by antiscab
thats interesting - several dominos stores here in Perth use Vmoto electric scooters for pizza delivery

I wonder if there's some national policy for dominos to use EV transport where possible?

Matt

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Sat, 04 May 2013, 04:46
by Johny
Yes, they are pretty proud of the use of EVs worldwide now.
[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n17B_uFF4cA[/tube]

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Sat, 04 May 2013, 14:30
by bladecar
Hi :)

Some humour in the video but very bloody noisy.

Imagine 3 of them together or 3 competing company scooters sitting at the lights, each with their own "listen-to-mine" racket going on. So, I hope that this isn't the future.

I've sometimes said that I would find it amusing to have that ability in an electric vehicle, with selectable "engine" noises, including Mr Magoo's Model T engine noise, but after having seen that, I've changed my mind.

If you knew you were going to hear it only once, it would get a smile.

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Sat, 18 May 2013, 13:37
by glenn_aircooled
I think that sound effect is really funny [ but I used to drive a Beetle ].
With different sound effects and the ability to turn it off - it would be great fun.... I still want to go with this idea.
I keep telling the family I will have a clip clopping horse sound with appropriate whinny   :)

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Tue, 20 Aug 2013, 15:56
by Vectrix150V
The Erider scooters were initially imported with 40AH Thundersky batteries, some had BMS units (that were not very well QC tested - some don't shunt, some don't trigger their optos etc).

They later came with GBS cells which apparently improved their performance and reliablity.

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Tue, 20 Aug 2013, 18:43
by antiscab
The Thundersky 40Ah cells used also came from a batch that had defects - namely some of the cells had self discharge while others didn't

It was really a combination of factors

a bad shunt can't set a cell on fire though - not enough heat, and it would have to get through the plastic casing first.

but a charger overcharging a cell in bulk charge mode can cause a hot spot with that effect, as can reversing a cell at 50-100A continuous

mountain chen has been using CHL cells for ages - it would be odd for e-rider to go to the trouble of fitting GBS cells. When I bought a bunch of the second hand TS 40's from them they told me they were swapping to CHL 50Ah cells.

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Tue, 20 Aug 2013, 19:11
by T1 Terry
A friend also bought aheap of the old 40Ah Thundersky cells from them, took all the BMS units off, carefully recharged the cells, some as low as 0.4v when tested, and has used all of them for boat motor battery packs and other various portable 12v power packs. A few weeks back he finally had 1 cell fail, after 2 yrs. that leads me to believe it wasn't a problem with the cells, just the BMS system.

T1 Terry

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Tue, 20 Aug 2013, 19:19
by antiscab
T1 Terry wrote: . A few weeks back he finally had 1 cell fail, after 2 yrs. that leads me to believe it wasn't a problem with the cells, just the BMS system.


yeah it's hit and miss

when I bought I had 8 cells that were DOA (short circuit internally) that weren't recoverable. But also a bunch more that were fine

The ones that were fine didn't have any self discharge, except for one.

A few of the cells had capacity loss, actual capacity was between 35Ah and 41Ah, leading me to suspect some were overcharged as well.

I suspect that all the duds had already failed before they got to me, along with a few the bad BMS's killed as well :D

Matt

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Tue, 20 Aug 2013, 20:09
by Vectrix150V
I bought some of these as well for the Vectrix, there was one that was very low (1.5AH) and some that had good capacity, but poor internal resistance.

The BMS design was - well - pretty ordinary. The HVC was in two stages - the first stage started shunting the cell at 3.65V, and the opto fired at around 4.3V, but didn't fully disconnect the charger till it reached about 4.5-4.6V (ouch!). These used Seiko chipsets designed for laptop cell-level BMS control. The LVC was 2V IIRC.

You can change the BMS units so that they can switch the opto on the first stage (3.65V) by scraping some of the PCB laquer off and adding a resistor (I also added an SMD LED) - by carefully testing the optos functionality for both HVC and LVC, these units ended up working OK. With a cheapie charger (bmsbattery 600W units) the opto output went across the soft-start circuitry (on the TL494) and kept the charger output to a level that the shunts could dissipate.

My charger has died (big surprise there), and at the moment I am using a rather ordinary capacitor based divider (ie. non-isolated) with the BMS signal from these units running into a zero-crossing opto-isolated triac driver on the mains side. Yeah its ugly alright :)

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 03:07
by antiscab
Vectrix150V wrote: With a cheapie charger (bmsbattery 600W units) the opto output went across the soft-start circuitry (on the TL494) and kept the charger output to a level that the shunts could dissipate.

My charger has died (big surprise there),


yeah come to think of it, my BMS battery 450W charger died as well, didn't make it through the first charge cycle

how did you go claiming warranty?

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 15:17
by Vectrix150V
Warrantee from a chinese vendor - funny :)

Unfortunatly when they break, the vendor isn't interested in helping you out, but helpfully offers (sometimes) a discount for a new one, and then makes it back on shipping.

I was looking at their 2000W version, but is a bit expensive for what it is - $250 for the charger + $130 shipping (all in USD) = $380 = $420 AUD or so - mmmm... bit expensive. Better built than the cheapies though.

Although I think you had some elcon chargers the were around this price?

Problem is where to put it, I don't think they fit where the standard charger did (at least my cardboard mockup didn't)

eRider goes up in flames!

Posted: Sun, 08 Sep 2013, 04:59
by electricty4cars
I agree when you said that everyone should be extra careful when purchasing products for electric vehicles. Some stores are taking advantage of beginners. If you are not really sure of what you are buying, better take a professional or a more skilled friend with you to avoid being deceived.