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Why get an EV?

Posted: Sun, 10 Jan 2010, 07:31
by peter t
Many like their regular cars, and are not convinced about the benefits of EVs, or just don’t care. If we cannot convince people that EVs can help reduce CO2 emission and that this is needed, the new technology cannot succeed.
So how would you persuade people that they should buy an EV? what are the underlying reasons for replacing existing solutions?

Why get an EV?


Why get an EV?

Posted: Sun, 10 Jan 2010, 17:26
by lithbattboss
Why get an EV?..... For the "EV grin" that is why!

Reducing CO2 emissions is only a minor consideration for me. Everyone has their own reasons for having an EV.
I plan to do an EV conversion later this year. My main reason is I believe it will save me dollars. My feeling is that world price of oil will increase greatly this year as the world economy recovers.
I would much rather pay off my battery bank with the money I save on petrol each week. With my ICE car I pull $80-$100 out of my pocket each week and it gets blown out the exhaust pipe in a week never to be seen again. Effectively speaking that same $100 is paying for a LiFePO4 cell or two which will last me the best part of 10 years.

Also by buying lithium batteries (irrespective of brand) it helps in battery development. What does it help by giving the same dollars to the big polluting oil companies?

Of course other people will have different reasons for doing an EV conversion.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Sun, 10 Jan 2010, 18:26
by Gow864
Electricity can be made at home (solar panels, wind etc...), petrol, diesel cannot. That independence is priceless, the other benefits just roll on from there.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Sun, 10 Jan 2010, 18:40
by acmotor
Well put LBB !!! Image

Why Convert an ICE to EV ? is the question perhaps more to the point given the tens of thousands that have been done worldwide and effectively almost the only way to 'get an EV' at the moment. ( I dream of a tesla )

I'm glad you put that first LBB. The 'EV grin' from something you have converted. Yep, ask anyone who's been there. The EV grin is worth all the effort and expense. It is a VERY powerful emotion.

But why ?
Motor vehicles are one of the most significant parts of our world today, yet one of the most wasteful, irresponsible and one over which we are held to ransom, sent to war and, apart from our house, spend most of our money on. Oil burning pollutes (long before the 'shower of rain' crowd got on the global warming bandwaggon)! Yes, there is (potential) CO2 reduction by using EVs.

So, to go against that oil trend REALLY appeals and grins result !

On the technology front.... Electricity is the cleanest most efficient method of energy transfer we have. It can be as close to zero emission as possible as well as SUSTAINABLE, unlike oil/coal based energy systems.

The options for advancement in vehicle design and function are massive with EVs. Particularly in the areas of regenerative braking/energy recovery, AWD in wheel motors etc. Options simply not on the books for ICEs.

The revenue base for government will have to change to excise on electrical energy rather than on fuel. Also user pays road taxes will increase so I'm not certain that there will be a operating cost advantage of EVs in the future but right now is the time to go EV before it rattles the world economic base !

Image

Why get an EV?

Posted: Mon, 11 Jan 2010, 05:27
by lithbattboss
Gow864 wrote: Electricity can be made at home (solar panels, wind etc...), petrol, diesel cannot. That independence is priceless, the other benefits just roll on from there.


Gow864 I would dispute that. Look at all the people who are making biodiesel themselves from used veggie cooking oil and many of the ICE cars in Brazil run on 85% ethanol so although you can't make your own oil you can make alternative liquid fuels.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Mon, 11 Jan 2010, 05:50
by acmotor
Perhaps add some words to Gow's post....

"Electricity can be made at home (solar panels, wind etc...) for zero emission living. petrol, diesel cannot be made or used without emissions. That independence is priceless, the other benefits (e.g.zero emissions) just roll on from there."

True about biodiesel but that is not really Gow's point.
(personally biodiesel creates its own world of questionable uses of foodstuffs and DOSEN'T reduce emissions when used in an ICE anyway) I also don't know of any biodiesel plants operating in my neighbourhood (and knowing my council, would not be allowed), but there'd be thousands of rooftop PV installations already and tens of thousands of solar HWS. (and one day soon, lots of EVs)

Just on the original question...
EVs will (eventually !) out perform, run smoother and involve less maintenance than ICEs.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Mon, 11 Jan 2010, 06:19
by Richo
peter t wrote:Why get an EV?


no oil changing
no spark plug replacement
no valve clearances to adjust
no timing belts
no alternator
no radiator flushing
no broken water pumps
no exhaust leaks
no rough cold starts
no dodgey mechanics over charging on parts/serive for the above



Why get an EV?

Posted: Mon, 11 Jan 2010, 23:52
by Gow864
Thank you acmotor(again).

lithbattboss, I have a friend who runs his work ute on home made "biodiesel", smells like a chip shop everytime he drives past, also, he is continually complaining about how hard it is to get large volumes of (in his case) used veggie oil. Granted we could set aside thousands of acres currently growing edible food to grow biodiesel instead. Personally i don't think that is a very good idea.

Electricity falls from the sky. You just have to catch some of it.

Gow.

PS: anyone need some liquid soap, I can lay my hands on gallons of the stuff Image

Why get an EV?

Posted: Tue, 12 Jan 2010, 02:33
by lithbattboss
Gow864 wrote: Thank you acmotor(again).

lithbattboss, I have a friend who runs his work ute on home made "biodiesel", smells like a chip shop everytime he drives past, also, he is continually complaining about how hard it is to get large volumes of (in his case) used veggie oil.


Obesity is a possible unseen hazard of running a ICE on biodiesel. If I was driving behind your mates ute it would make me feel hungry breathing his exhaust! Image

Why get an EV?

Posted: Tue, 12 Jan 2010, 19:31
by pdhsolar
Why NOT get an EV?

I was driving through the city this morning and I wound down my window to let in some "fresh" air. After only a few seconds I coudn't beleive the stink coming from the exhausts of the cars and buses around me (mine included).

The GM EV1 could drive around 120 miles (190km) per charge on lead acid batteries back in 1999, so today there is no reason why 80% of the population could buy an EV (which would be cheaper to build, use and maintain than a petrol car). Not to mention we would actually have "fresh" air when we do need to wind our windows down. It must be better for our health and that of our kids.

I stumbled across the DVD "Who killed the electric car" and could not believe that GM crushed those great little EV1 cars. It was then that (since I couldnt buy an EV) that I started to build my own, so I have almost completed it. I would have happily paid $50,000 for an old 1996 GM EV1 if it were possible! - I wont be buying a Volt though, not with a 1.4 litre engine in it! (er, sorry, "generator"!) LOL. Make it a real EV and I'll sign up today!

Why get an EV?

Posted: Tue, 12 Jan 2010, 19:32
by pdhsolar
I meant "80% couldn't buy an EV"

Why get an EV?

Posted: Tue, 12 Jan 2010, 21:43
by EV2Go
Richo wrote:
peter t wrote:Why get an EV?


no oil changing
no spark plug replacement
no valve clearances to adjust
no timing belts
no alternator
no radiator flushing
no broken water pumps
no exhaust leaks
no rough cold starts
no dodgey mechanics over charging on parts/serive for the above
All of the valid reasons Richo gave but far more importantly... So I can stick my middle finger up and say "Fire Truck" you greedy petrol stations as I drive past.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Tue, 12 Jan 2010, 23:50
by marty11
"GM EV1 could drive around 120 miles (190km) per charge on lead acid batteries back in 1999," from two post up..

What I dont understand, is thats 11 years ago. Why cant someone make an ev that even equals this performance today. That should equate to a lot of miles / kms on advanced battery design today. Just replicate the same technology! Whack in better batteries and sell the things..

Why get an EV?

Posted: Wed, 13 Jan 2010, 12:07
by EClubman
@marty11
Somebody did - it's called a Tesla.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Wed, 13 Jan 2010, 12:25
by antiscab
thats true,
the tesla drivetrain is a change to DSP from analogue control of the ACPropulsion system.
The ACPropulsion system was V2 of alan coconni's original EV1 drivetrain.

expensive stuff when new.

closest you can get is to buy a Honda Insight (which is every bit as slippery as the EV1) and convert to EV.

Matt

Why get an EV?

Posted: Wed, 13 Jan 2010, 13:23
by marty11
EClubman wrote: Somebody did - Tesla.


laughs.. well I have tried buying one...a tesla..   but if GM had that technology, why dont either gm or mitubishi etc launch a model now with just the same or beter range / performance.

Perhaps Ford or Hyundai or Kia might leapfrog the slower ones in ev .. by the end of this year, things ev (announcements of new vehicle release for sale ) , in the mainstream offerings, will become a bit of a race , and might just be exciting

@antiscab.. interesting reading - thanks

Why get an EV?

Posted: Wed, 13 Jan 2010, 17:54
by Goombi
Are you going to try to persuade the Governments of the world to give up on guel taxes which are biggest feeders of ecconomies Think what is involved with ICE--- potrol-oil services repairs replacement parts Manufacturers of components that are not used in EV's there will be job losses which will have to re-tool for EV,s productions.
Loses from Oil exploration losses to the Arab and oil rich countries losses of income for Alkaida and associates--Petrol station owners will have to convert to Charging stations.. but the biggest hurdle is the governments. This industry depending on polution and Oil is too big to dismantle. Every second person is indirectly or directly involved in IcE vehicles. There is Nothing that will create a EV revolution other then globe gradually running out of oil and even then will only partially affect the current status quo....

EV converters are not all together ignored folks. We do get noticed weather its the personal satisfaction or the smile and a wave from passing Ice commuters. What I am driving a car that is clean and i am proud of it ----that is my grin---- and up the --you know who!!!

Build you EV's its fun and it don't cost the earth. EV's are sellable item. I had 2 offers for my EVBrumby already---Not selling. Build them use them drive them-- advertise them----Your reward will be the personal satisfaction... Nothing else matters.

www.evbrumby.mysite.com

Why get an EV?

Posted: Wed, 13 Jan 2010, 21:09
by Richo
Goombi wrote:replacement parts Manufacturers of components that are not used in EV's there will be job losses which will have to re-tool for EV,s productions.


Which is likely why the MieV is always coming out next year.
Can you imagine if it developed a fault.
Perhaps fly out a mechanic/enigneer from Japan to fix it?
Releasing an eV would also mean updating the repair/maintenance infrastructure to deal with it.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Wed, 13 Jan 2010, 21:12
by Richo
Another reason to have an eV:
So I don't have to pretend I am doing good by driving a hybrid!

Why get an EV?

Posted: Wed, 13 Jan 2010, 21:48
by Goombi
The main restriction for EV vehicles not being imported to Australia is   The Gov won't let them in. Why should they? every ICE produces on average $2000 in petrol out of which the gov collects $700
Gov don't care to save the mother earth they do not mind spending money --40 Million to Toyota for Prius hybrid-- this way the gov. looks green and still collect as much revenue as before. Hypocrites with capital H.There could be couple hunders chinese conversions running this year on the road and more likely as more converters will start making them.
Tell everyone that you are collecting hot sunrays that are warming our planet and Pumping the ray into batteries and killing the rays as energy through power to EV motor.. therefore cooling the planet. Penny and Peter will believe you-- No one else will

Why get an EV?

Posted: Fri, 29 Jan 2010, 01:31
by Dean
QUOTE, but if GM had that technology, why dont either gm or mitubishi etc launch a model now with just the same or beter range / performance.

Mitsubishi has broken the record for distance with the Mitsubishi Eclips, and FTO. In 1998 from memory still besting the Tesla.

The FTO is my choice of conversion (now out of production as of 2001). This car is still importable with 40k on the clock from Japan.

The Eclips is still in production, America and Canada only (left hand drive only, this is my 2nd choice of conversion). I spoke to Mitsubishi and they have NO plan to import a right hand drive version here.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Fri, 29 Jan 2010, 03:23
by antiscab
the FTO can't be imported under the new rules, as it used to be sold here by the original manufacturer. same goes for all those honda insights, which from an engineering perspective are great conversion candidates.

the eclipse should be fine to import, if someone is up for compliancing them (takes 18+ months and lotsa money). only a few popular models have been complianced (GTR skyline, wrx, etc).

GMs problem is they junked all the tooling that was used to make the EV1, so they're starting from scratch (again). mitsubishi have actually released EVs, but their production capacity is limited to 10'000 units/year IIRC.

Matt

Why get an EV?

Posted: Fri, 29 Jan 2010, 06:49
by Richo
Marty11 wrote:but if GM had that technology, why dont either gm or mitubishi etc launch a model now with just the same or beter range / performance.


Quite simply - there is no money in it for them.

Why get an EV?

Posted: Fri, 29 Jan 2010, 15:41
by Goombi
That could be the answer--- its pretty simple really
Does anyone have any Idea what was in that famous EV1   Motor type controller-- batteries weight of the EV1. Performance: speed and distance info.
Would i buy a Prius?-- Never Prius was designed to appear as a perpetual motion vehicle with support of batteries charged by a motor from Corolla that uses more petrol then most 1.5l small vehicles today. I can only conclude that its a abortion of a concept. The Cost of the car and the maintenance just don't add up.
I agree with AC motor that the only perfect electrical car is the one that will drive off its batteries for --from 200 km distance up> Now anyone has any idea how to achieve it.That will be the ultimate EV. Let us all work on this one.
I do not believe that the world motor car geniuses have yet come with a concept to match EV1. It is obvious that the EV/battery has limitations even with Lithium batteries.USA gov is spnding millions to find a battery better then the obvious Lithium batteries. For us instanly made auto engineers lol. making our EV's just have to be satisfied to only spend 7-8k and use the EV as a shopping trolley and short distance transport. up to 120 Km every 50 Km above that will become multiplying effort and almost impossibility with what is available to us.
www.evbrumby.mysite.com

Why get an EV?

Posted: Sat, 30 Jan 2010, 03:19
by will01
I think the The principle advantage of battery electric cars is that they are the only commercially available zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs). Being zero-emission, EVs therefore provide local environmental benefits - including cleaner air and reduced noise in urban areas.