Ron"s EV stories

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
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Electron
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Post by Electron »

Why did I build an electric car?

Because I couldn’t buy one. Well not quite.
Back in the 1980s, I became interested in wind power, I installed a wind generator on my house to charge a battery and changed some lights to run on 12v. I then became interested in solar energy and fitted some solar panels, more batteries and an inverter to my house. At the time I was working for a solar power company. After the first World Solar Challenge, I thought I would like to built a solar powered vehicle and compete in the next WSC, but due to the lack of resources this did not happen. I then decided that a road going EV would be more achievable. I joined the AEVA and started looking for an EV to purchase, there weren’t any for sale, so I started to investigate building one.

In the mean time I purchased a Solo Electra 720, replaced the batteries, registered it and rode it to work for the next 2 years until I got the Sherpa on the road.

What donor body would I use? I looked at a Mini Moke first up, motor under the bonnet, batteries in the side pods, solar panel roof. But finding a good body at the right price proved fruitless. I happened to walk into a Subaru wrecker and there was a Sherpa in the yard, I could not see anything wrong with it. Upon asking I was told that the motor has seized and was not worth fixing. The perfect vehicle, broken motor and cheap, so I bought it. But still short of resources I had to sell the solar power system off my house to pay for the parts.

More on the Solo Electra and Sherpa in future posts.

Ron
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Post by Paul9 »

Hi Ron

I note, as did someone else in another post to you, that you appear to be keen on wet LA batteries whereas everyone seems to "bag" them! My mate and I are in the process of converting a Suzuki Swift and are tossing up between wet LA, SLA, AGM and Gel batteries. The SLA, AGM and Gel batteries all appear to weigh around 30kg each for approx 100 amphr capacity and to be around the same price. The wet LA are 20kg each for 105 amphr capacity and are somewhat cheaper.

My mate is convinced the SLA, AGM and Gel are the only ones we should experiment with whereas I think we should try the wet lead acid too. The SLA, AGM and Gel are all 50% heavier for no extra capacity. In our 96volt DC system the SLA, AGM and Gel will add approx 80kgs to the weight of the car!

Would you like to give me your experiences with these type of batteries?
Thanks
Paul
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Post by Electron »

Paul

From past experiences.
Lithium, don't like, destroyed a set in under 1000kms (QUT electric van)the max discharge current is only .3C. I know others will disagree, but the specs I have read don't realy indicate any different. You need a fancy charger and BMS system and they cost a lot.

SLA, AGM and Gel, had some experience with these,(QUT electric car and bike) charging was specialised, but not as bad as lithium, a basic BMS system is required, to help equalise the batteries. Some like the Odssey required high charging currents, some only available in 12v and small capacity.

Wet Lead Acid, my favourite (my Subaru Sherpa) they are cheap, very forgiving, don't need a fancy charger or any BMS system and they have been around for years. With any battery, the discharge current is always a problem, you will get better performance, range and battery life the lower the max discharge current is compared with the C capacity. I use 6v batteries, 220AH capacity. Drawing upto 200amps is below 1C. Don't forget the allow for the Peukert's exponent.

For 96 volts, I would suggest 16 x 6v 220ah batteries at 30kg each, total 480kg, or if weight is an issue use 8v batteries lower capacity but same weight per battery but less batteries so 12 x 30kg total 360kg.
If maintainence is an issue, you can get an automatic water systems.
I got over 20,000kms out of each set that I used. After the first set died I sent them back to the battery manufacter and they tested them, they had died of natural causes and that did more C/D cycles than advertised. When the Sherpa goes back on the road later this year, I will be fitting wet lead acid again.
Hope that helps?

Ron
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Post by Electron »


“Old Technology” a Solo Electra 720

I bought the Solo Electra from an AEVA member in 1990, he had 2 of them. The bike was complete except for the speed controller, the original was a twist grip on the handle bars pulling a cable operated on/off switch. I up graded this by using a switch on the handle bars to operate a solenoid. Solo Electras came with a centrifugal clutch, so (digital) speed control being on or off was not jerky, in fact it was quite smooth. This also gave over speed regen braking, the motor was a permanent magnet type. Later on someone convinced me to fit an electronic speed controller and remove the centrifugal clutch, a big mistake. I still drove it at full throttle and lost the over speed regen. Unfortunately the centrifugal clutch was damaged on removal.

Solos originally came as 24v, but I fitted an extra battery to make it 36v. This doubled the speed from 25kph to 40kph. 25kph was a bit slow for riding in traffic but 40kph was a lot better.

Solo Electras were first built by Solo Kleinmotoron Gmbh of Sindelfinger (West Germany) in 1972. They were awarded a prize for "styling" by the German Ministry of Economic Affairs.

Many thousands were built and sold in Europe. Unfortunately, Solo Electras are no longer in production. "Old Technology" was built in 1974.

A Bosch 24 volt 500 watt permanent magnet motor, and a twostep transmission consisting of a V belt and chain drive gives superb acceleration.

Pedal assistance is available for use on steep hills, or when the batteries are flat.

Breaking is achieved by 100 mm drums (front and rear) and are cable operated from the handle bars.

All up weight is 75 kg plus rider.

"Old Technology" was registered and ridden daily by me and travelled over 2,500 kms in the 2 years before being superseded by my Electric Subaru.

Why is it called “Old Technology”? Back in the early 1990s somebody hurtfully called it that, they considered it to be old technology, because it used a brush motor, lead acid batteries and had no speed control.

I rode “Old Technology” to a class win in the 1992 Energy Challenge.

Ron

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vince
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Post by vince »

Hi Ron;You said you will be using wet lead acid batteries again,how would they be in my climate here in Ontario Canada(winter average lows -25/30c.
Thanks,Vince
Last edited by vince on Thu, 24 Sep 2009, 01:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Electron »

Vince

That's cold, here is sunny Brisbane in Queensland, I have never seen the tempeture go below 0c.

I have had some experience with colder temperatures when visiting central NSW a few years ago, It was only just sub zero. The first night I charged the batteries in the early evening and by next morning the batteries were cold and so, slow to perform. The next night I did not start charging until early morning, the batteries were still hot from charging and performed as they should. Perhapse some one from a colder part of Australia might have more experience in this sitution. I have more problems with high battery temperatures than cold.

I would imagine that you would do the same things as with a ICE vehicle, insulate, battery heaters, store the vehicle inside, etc. As far as most design goes it is based on temperature(don't get it hot enough to let the smoke out), in the cold you can get away with smaller cables and motors, etc, you have an inbuilt cooling system. I also understand that battery manufactures make different batteries to suit different climates.

Ron
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Post by vince »

Thanks Ron for getting back to me i'll keep hunting.
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Post by bga »

Yes,

Big batteries, but that might have been bceause of the big V8??

Car batteries should last longer becuase they are cooler.

In Edmonton Alberta cars get plugged in at night in winter to keep the oil liquid and the battery warm enough to start the engine. It gets as low as -40 there.

My favourite Edmonton weather warning:
"Exposed flesh freezes within 2 minutes"

In Ottawa, you don't see plugins, so -25 isn't cold enough. Maybe people have more garages in Ottawa.
vince
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Post by vince »

Hi ex-neighbor,until i read about Rons use of wet batts and not knowing he doesn't get winter i got my hopes up but i guess i'll go back to the idea of using AGM's.Yeah we very seldom have to worry about flesh freezes but those days do come occasionally.Now don't forget your sunscreen guys!
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Post by bga »

Hi Vince,

Sealed batteries get around a lot of ventilation problems.
An idea for Canada might be to do some thermal management:
Insulate the battery boxes.
Install heater mats under the batteries. (Does Walmart sell these?)
Add a vent fan for summer cooling.

I was musing on the reverse in Australia:
It gets warm here, +40 in the day and +25 at night for a couple of months in the summer. I would expect the average EV battery temperature to be fairly high in the summer and not too good for the cells.
Perhaps it's a good ides to insulate the battery boxes and chill them when plugged in, keeping the battery temperature to less than 30 C.

This is probably easier with lithium that doesn't heat so much when being charged or discharged.

I was thinking fibreglass/foam construction for the boxes. It's easy to to get IP66 this way so fingers stay out.

Cheers

BGA
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Post by Paul9 »

We are still going on our conversion so I have no experience with cold temperatures affecting EV batteries. I do however have a 4 bed house on 40 acres in Central NSW (Oberon to be exact). The weather jokes for Oberon go along the line of "In Oberon last year summer fell on a Tuesday." and "There are only two seasons in Oberon - winter and January."

My house is completely off-grid with all power supllied by PV panels and a wind turbine. Winter temps get down to about minus 11 Celcius. The solar array batteries - wet lead acid - do seem to have less capacity in winter, around 85% of full capacity. These batteries are stored inside the house so do have the benefit of heat retained by the house.

I also wondered about the possible benefits of having the controller (which gets real hot) snuggled in among the batteries so the heat from the controller may offset some of the cold near the batteries. Why artifically heat something when there are already a number of components which can suffer from being too hot?

Anyway just thoughts.
Regards
Paul
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Post by bga »

Created a new topic for batteries and climate:
Here
vince
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Post by vince »

BGA;Got The info and its right on target,thanks and catch you on your new post.
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Post by Squiggles »

Paul9 wrote: We are still going on our conversion so I have no experience with cold temperatures affecting EV batteries. I do however have a 4 bed house on 40 acres in Central NSW (Oberon to be exact). The weather jokes for Oberon go along the line of "In Oberon last year summer fell on a Tuesday." and "There are only two seasons in Oberon - winter and January."

So your climate is just slightly better than Lithgow!
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Post by Paul9 »

My weekender is 10kms south of Oberon township at 1200 mrs above sea level and may be a bit colder than Lithgow!
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Post by Squiggles »

You're pulling my leg, colder than Lithgow, no way.
Paul9
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Post by Paul9 »

Hi Squiggles
Just out of curiosity I thought I'd look up the temp averages. July in Lithgow has an average max of 10.4c and average min of
+0.7c. Oberon in July has average max of 8.6c and an average min of -0.4c.
Oberon in middle of winter is between 1c and 2c colder than Lithgow!
But who cares when sitting in front of the fire with a glass of red!
Regards
Paul
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Post by Mikkisparc »

Hi Ron,

I also got the hold of an orginal SOLO Electra from germany build 1973 here in SA.
My question is i have a Rego plate on it so how fast is it allowed to go on the public roads?

Also 25 kmh is not that fast can i just overvolt the system up to 36volt by placing an extra 12v 26 A battery to get it more speed , say about
50/60 kmh?, i would like to have a safe setup with the original driveline clutch and motor and contactor.

Will the original contactor that works as a throttle keep up with the amps?
Let me know what you think the safest way is to get it to a faster speed for safe riding on the public roads.

Cheers, btw its a cute bike bit heavy :)
Mikki Sparc
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