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Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
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Clean32
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Real Name: Dean Williams
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Post by Clean32 »

Well I finally got registered, ( found the email in my junk box)

Anyway I am an old petrol head from way back, with a preachment for stuffing big motors into small cars, (a couple were quite well known in there day)
Anyway getting to old for that now ( or sensible)

Now being a nuts an bolts sort of guy ( fitter by trade originally) where I can flow out a head, set up any Vehicle to go around any thing ( or in a strait line ) but I think I need a bit of education in this electrical stuff.
As to that I have a million and 2 questions

Controllers?   All the links you have please
Motors, ok how do you rate them, I imagine just a Kw-to-Kw will not work.

AC vers DC

who’s done what cars?

what’s the maths, I love maths   so give it to me. ( or links)

I like the idea of the MX5, link around her somewhere
I like the idea of the electric lawnmower

I have already been down the track of the bio diesel, been there done that boring ( well until you add a bit of refined urea)

In short where do I start??

NB I will be in Adelaide mid march I think, need to get out of this frozen hole, PS I am Kiwi
zeva
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Post by zeva »

Hey Clean32, welcome to the forums. You wouldn't happen to be referring to an R32 with your alias would you? Some answers to your questions:

Controllers
If you're after high performance, the best way to go right now are the Zilla controllers from CafeElectric.com - can route about 700kW of power to a series DC motor with their flagship model! The downside is they have a ~6 month waiting list. Some alternatives, Curtis Instruments' 1231C is the most common motor controller for roadgoing EVs (72kW max), or the one I'm currently developing and hope to market (~150kW) which I'll be using in the MX5.

Motors
Continuous and/or peak kW is a good yardstick to work with, though the torque curve in electric motors is vastly different to petrol engines so power comparison between the two (in terms of how the vehicle will drive) is apples and oranges. Most people I know of just go by "gut feel" and by comparison to existing vehicles out there.

AC vs DC
AC is more efficient, more reliable, lower maintenance, and you get regenerative braking. DC much cheaper and more powerful, by weight and by dollars. Personally I think DC is still the way to go, but AC is definitely the way of the future - it's only a matter of time until the price is competitive with DC (but we are talking years).

Who's done what cars?
http://www.evalbum.com knows all! You can search by location too for the Australian or Kiwi ones.

Maths
This one's interesting if you can read javascript: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/ ... vcalc.html

Where to start?
The two things I would recommend highly are:-
(a) Read as much as possible! There's a lot of specialised knowledge and most mistakes have already been made by others (so you don't have to! Image )
(b) Head to your local EV club meeting for inspiration, to have a chat with people who's done it before, and to check out their cars. Or go visit a local EV owner, they're usually happy to show off their toys!
Last edited by zeva on Sat, 19 Jan 2008, 09:40, edited 1 time in total.
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"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world." - Margaret Mead
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Clean32
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Post by Clean32 »

Cool thanks for the start.

is there a list about for aussie supplyers, or is everyone getting there stuff from the states??
zeva
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Post by zeva »

The unfortunate truth is that yes, you will probably still have to source some parts from overseas, but we're working on that..

So to start, a shameless plug for my business, Zero Emission Vehicles Australia (http://www.zeva.com.au). One of the primary motivations behind starting this business was due to the difficulty I experienced purchasing parts locally for my first EV conversion, but hopefully I can make it easier for others in the future!

Some other parts suppliers - EVPower (www.evpower.com.au - lithium batteries, chargers, BMS), Bylong Industries (http://www.bylongind.com.au/ - Curtis controllers, contactors), Cleveland Electronic Services (motors, contactors, fuses, etc), http://www.evmotors.com.au (Advanced DC brand motors).

Apologies if I forgot anyone (I probably did), that's just off the top of my head..
Last edited by zeva on Sun, 20 Jan 2008, 11:38, edited 1 time in total.
Ian Hooper
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"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world." - Margaret Mead
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Clean32
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Post by Clean32 »

Thanks for that.

Is there a club in Adelaide?? If so has any one got any contact details please?


Already talking to China about lithium iron cells, and low voltage cut outs,   I have just finished a similar project here ( different application) so I have bounced it of my current suppliers, they seem keen, there seems to be a market already, if everyone with lead acid was keen to change over ?

That leaves controllers, 75 kw seems a bit light, is there any thing around the 500kw mark? If not is any one working on it in aussie, if not why not??

Motors   any other suppliers?
zeva
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Post by zeva »

I don't think there is a club in Adelaide - about time someone started one! Image

I'd be interested to hear how you go with Chinese suppliers of LiFePO4 batteries, I've been investigating it myself quite a bit lately. The best candidates I've come across so far are DLG and Headway, who both have decent cells around US$0.60 per watt hour. (Which is still a lot of money when you need 10-20kWh for the average EV!)

And controllers, yeah nobody particularly likes the 72kW Curtis 1231s, but alternatives are few and far between. The CafeElectric.com Zilla 2K-HV is the only controller around the 500kW+ mark. They're not cheap, but in their defense it is pretty hard to make a controller that beefy. Consider that's like 100x the total power used in a typical house, all passing through something smaller than a shoebox! The power electronics gets tricky at those levels.

Motors, NetGain and Advanced DC are the main two brands for Series DC. I don't think there are any Australian distributors for AC EV gear like Siemens or BRUSA yet, but http://www.metricmind.com in the US are happy to ship stuff over here.
Last edited by zeva on Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 12:52, edited 1 time in total.
Ian Hooper
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"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world." - Margaret Mead
http://www.zeva.com.au
Clean32
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Post by Clean32 »

Thanks for that

Ok so to summarize so far, the to main problems for converting a car to invisible go juice. Is!

Limited options for controllers, either a go slow or a very fast option but both are in there thousands $$

Batteries,
With the Chinese manufactures, I know that the cost per unit is a hell of a lot cheaper than what they are currently selling for. The reason for this is that they wish to quickly recover there capital costs.   And the reasons for that is basically there political history but also they are scared that a new technology will turn up tomorrow and they will be left sitting with no orders, as has happened recently with the nano polymer development. Every time they hear a bit of news like this, they say to them self’s, “ UUMMM lets not drop the price just yet”.

With about 60 EVs in aussie, and at least that many again currently being built, i think that the tipping point would be when, a mid size car (2 ltr) can be fitted out at a cost of less than $10K and can perform to. 0 = 100klm in around 9 seconds, a range of 150Klm and a top speed of over 160klm, charging in about 3-6 hours I don’t really see as a problem, but then possibly an option of a possibly a generator even mounted.

Any way, batteries, these guys like to build big packs, witch are no use for converting cars not designed for them, possibly a better option is a hard case pack about the same size as a lead acid is now. Or even a bit smaller? Any thoughts?

Any way just rambling on, as I said before   this invisible fuel stuff is a new topic to me, but I will get there.

Lastly I think there is a growing interest in the petrol head guys (none will admit it) I think this is due to the resent go fast toys that have popped up, oh and monster Garage. I can see a large group of converts waiting in the wings, for the day when a conversation can be done by a mechanic and not a sparkie and with no mystery.
Benonymous
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Post by Benonymous »

Here's a locally made AC controller that was designed for solar racers. It's got a peak of around 20KW and is intended to run a wheel motor of the CSIRO Halbach Axial type. I have corresponded with James Kennedy, one of the engineers, and he's currently developing a less expensive controller to run an AC induction motor. The controllers run a CAN system and Tritium also offer peripheral controls, throttle, instruments etc.

The 20KW unit is around the $7000 mark and a CSIRO motor kit is about $11,000. These are not much use for an ICE conversion project but it's encouraging to see that there is some hardware available here in Australia that's locally produced.

Personally I don't like the Advanced DC motors. They are far from "advanced" and still have brushes to wear out and cause EMI. I don't see why an induction motor and polyphase inverter should cost more than a DC motor and a controller to run it. Don't for get that the $AU is running at almost $.94USD at the moment. All the serious development is going into polyphase systems I think DC will history when EV's make it into volume production.

Having said that, power to all the DC converters out there. I haven't even started my project yet.
Benonymous
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Post by Benonymous »

Oops, for got the link
http://tritium.com.au/ Image
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