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acmotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2013 at 3:21pm
Ditto.
I measure recharge with an external power meter.
135.3Wh/km is my average, plug to wheel for 30,000km.

I have no option other than to charge to 100% as I use at least 10kWh, up to 15kWh at a time.
I consider using the bottom 10% of pack capacity as detrimental as using the top 10%, perhaps more so if you run flat on the road ! In the end, I trust mitsi to have done the battery managamant well. The warranty suggests they believe they have.

Kurt, nice off grid software !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2013 at 3:35pm
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Edited by offgridQLD - 07 August 2013 at 5:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2013 at 7:26am
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Edited by offgridQLD - 07 August 2013 at 5:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adverse Effects Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2013 at 3:18pm
looks like a good place to store all the cars paperwork and recites
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2013 at 5:14pm
Geeez you guys. That was meant to be iMiEV owners only secret compartment, now you've gone and told the world ! I can't put anything valuable in there any more.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2013 at 10:59am
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Edited by offgridQLD - 07 August 2013 at 5:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2013 at 11:20am
Nice !!
I can see the smile on the iMiEVs face too ! FOOD !

Now..... that CHAdeMO   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2013 at 11:41am
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Edited by offgridQLD - 07 August 2013 at 5:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote g4qber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2013 at 12:41pm
Typo dose = does
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2013 at 10:43pm
Spelling police I see.


Originally posted by offgridQLD offgridQLD wrote:

....or my wife wants to throw some washing on all the loads can add up. So some breathing space is good...



No pun intended.   

Sounds like a massive off grid system there Kurt !
What brand is the inverter ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 11:12am
Today we had a go at driving our Imiev from Brisbane to our off grid house in the Sunshine coast hinterland. Total distance was 104km with a 500m + climb up into the hinterland along with several other hilly undulating sections at the start and end of the trip.

Below is a altitude profile of the trip.

[/URL]



We made it to the house 104km with 2 bars (2kwh) remaining on the SOC gauge and 9km on the RR gauge (though the last 20km were all uphill or undulating). We had a good load in the car to. two adults and one child, a Engel fridge(40kg including the food inside), luggage 4 bags 30kg and the charger.



[/URL]


Parked the car in the shed at 11AM unplugged the air compressor and started charging. The solar charge controller sprung to life to cover the load.The inverter was showing around 2400w AC output 2 200w was the charger and the other 200w was the idle house load.







Looking at the solar charge controller it was pumping around 3300w into the battery's to hold float.35% loss. 5% of that loss would be charging the lithium's in the I miev. 10 - 15% would be inverter loss and the remaining would be flooded lead acid battery's that are not very efficient. When I switch to lithium's on the House in a few years there will be a big improvement in efficiency.





Anyhow it shouldn't be a problem At the moment I am just using the 3960w of PV that's on the roof NE facing. When I have time I will put up the additional 4200w on the NW roof of the house. I thought it would be a good idea to get up on the roof and clean the solar panels as I have been lazy and the last time I did it was over a year ago .



I will most likely pump 7kwh or so into the battery today and top of with another 7kwh tomorrow for the drive home Sunday afternoon.I should have 3 or 4 bars (kwh) on the SOC gauge on the return trip as I am going down the range.

Edit: I had the charger on from 11:00am 2:15pm and pumped back 7kwh into the Imiev. house battery's are on float so it was great to be able to actually use some of the excess kwh that just gets wasted. Will top off the next 7kwh tomorrow and drive back to Brisbane on sun power .

I also had a go at fitting my old 15x6 polished five spoke Honda mags with 195,50,15 tyres on the front. As I was expecting the wheels fit as they are the same 4x100 PCD but being 6 inch wide with a 45 offset they clash with the strut just , as expected. Boy they looked great though.Completely transformed the look of the car.


I would say 16x5 or 16x5.5 wheels would be perfect as the strut leans away from the wheel so a larger OD wheel would gain some clearance along with a 5 or 5.5 inch width and a 45 offset would keep the stock geometry. I was getting 5lt/100km with the 195's at 40psi on my old civic and about the same with the stock 165's. So I don't see there being that much consumption difference going to say 185 up front on the Imiev over the silly 145's.

Kurt

Edited by offgridQLD - 24 August 2013 at 7:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 6:04pm
Oh what a fantastic feeling ! A great cruise on batteries and then pour the sun in.
For those few of us (EV folk) that have seen the future light of transport and are experiencing it.... way to go Kurt !

Solar charge controller - it was pumping around 3300w into the battery's to hold float.
Inverter showed 2400W output. (iMiEV ~2200W + sundry house loads)
Loss 900W this would be 27% ?
iMiEV loss already accounted for in the 2200W.
FLAs consuming some power .... can you measure ? clamp meter cuurent ?
FLAs should approach zero current at float assuming they weren't still in boost charge mode.
Inverter efficiency may be closer to 80% at this load ?
All irrelevant if you have PV power to spare.

Front tyres ! Interesting. I want to measure the electric power steering unit consumption first. There must have been some reason for Mitsi to go those rubber bands on the front.

What was the site for the altitude profile ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 6:53pm
Yes sorry 2200w was measured at the plug so all charging losses included and yes 27% loss from charge controller to GPO. Must have spent to much time in the power room with the FLA's sniffing the electrolyte

Could be 20% loss at the inverter I wouldn't think so. The inverter its rated at 93% peek efficiency. Selectronics listed specs are usually trustworthy but at 2400w - under 1/2 load who knows.

Yes float on the 63kwh FLA usually only takes one amp or so to hold and the bank was in Float. I will download the logs from the inverter and the charge controller and see where the 900w is going I have shunts on everything.I'm sure some of it will be a battery loss with the FLA at that load and I will have a think about it before I lay out why

As for the wheels. Power steering how big is the fuse on the power assist motor. It's 12v yes? If it is I could put a meter on it. I'm sure its not a big load.

I think Mitsubishi just used the wheel package that was on the ICE Icar. That way they could use all the same parts. The 2010 gen one imiev had the same style mags as the ice powered Icar.

Altitude profile was taken from Google earth. I just typed in the start point and then destination point to make a path under (Get directions). Then right click the blue path and select (show elevation profile)





Edited by offgridQLD - 24 August 2013 at 9:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 7:18pm
Electric power steering is fused at a substantial 60A off 12V !
Labelled EPS-ECU upper left on this diagram.
So must draw a few hundred Watts while parking.



edit: Remember to right click view image for a better resln.

Edited by acmotor - 24 August 2013 at 7:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 7:27pm
Ok so we know it wont use more than 700w or so under full load or the fuse will pop. Considering its power assistance and a good rack can function fine without assistance once moving on a small car. I guess the only issue would be overloading it at low speeds - parking.

Unless you have silly habits of turning the wheels while completely stationary I don't think you would have any issues with a moderately larger wheel 185 or so.

When I have time I will throw my little 100A inline shunt meter in place of the fuse and see what it measures turning the wheels in the garage while creeping forward and back.

Kurt

Edited by offgridQLD - 24 August 2013 at 9:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonescg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 8:44pm


I challenge you to come up with a better invention than the bicycle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 9:03pm
Not 'till the EV is charged !

I found the max steering effort was in knee deep wet grass half bogged in a paddock not on bitumen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 9:28pm
Or perhaps she was asking if she can use the dirt from the solar panels to level the driveway boy they were dirty Looking at them again later in the day I didn't do that good of a job cleaning them round two tomorrow I think.

Before I purchased the Imiev. I was considering a late model L251S Daihatsu charade/mira as a platform for a home build EV. They use a electric power assist steering rack. A few of them that I looked at and test drove had aftermarket 195 wide wheels stock size was 155 and they drove fine.

One funny thing I noticed today. I pulled the Imiev up to the entrance of the shed. placed the front wheels at the edge of the 125mm high concrete slab. I didn't want to pinch the wheels driving fast into the sharp edge. So I was going to just creep it up slowly. To my surprise it wouldn't climb up without a small run up. I think Mitsubishi have gone a little to soft on the ramp up of the motor controller. That or just one negative of a single speed transmission.

Kurt



Edited by offgridQLD - 24 August 2013 at 9:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2013 at 9:56pm
Yeah, I noticed the climbing limit on one occasion. I let the tyres back to 36psi and it went up but wouldn't at 40psi. Obviously just on the edge of the step climb. Mind you it was a step that challenged the ground clearance too.

It is like tyre pressures on a hand trolley going up stairs... the higher pressure makes the job harder.

Historically a kerb has been the undoing of a few EV conversions. Series DC in particular is in trouble when stalled on a kerb. All the heat in one armature winding.

The drive wheels (rear in iMiEv case) have less problem with steps than the front since rotational torque is being applied rather than just resulting from vehicle forward motion. I think that is right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2013 at 4:09pm
I did the 104km trip back to Brisbane with 5kwh showing on the gauge.

Edit: The gauge ticked over to 4kwh after a short drive the following day so I would say 4kwh is more accurate.

I was just going with the flow of traffic on the motorway 100kmh. Same load in the car as on the way up. Regen was limited after descending 3/4 of the way down the range. I take it the pack was to full to take the full regen available.

To be able to drive over 100km with 1/3 of a tank(battery) remaining is great.

saved over $30 in fuel to.

kurt



Edited by offgridQLD - 26 August 2013 at 8:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2013 at 6:48pm
Nice cruise Kurt.
That 2/5kWh is a nice buffer against bad day trips and heater, aircond etc. (and maybe one day battery ageing )
e.g. I was forced on a 30km detour from blocked roads during a bushfire last summer.

Regen is great thing isn't it !!!
Between that and the elevation change (e=mgh) the 3kWh trip difference is a good thing. As you point out, could have been even more if there had been somewhere to put the last of the regen.

So I guess you are a happy chap right now ! New EV, solar charged, does the trip required, saves oil$, all good !

What a shame more folk haven't found their way to that feeling.
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2013 at 7:38am
Originally posted by offgridQLD offgridQLD wrote:

To be able to drive over 100km with 1/3 of a tank(battery) remaining is great.
What a great EV success Kurt. I guess when you are feeling brave you might not fully charge it for the trip home. I'd leave it for a couple of trips though - just so you have a sample of trips to see how it goes generally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2013 at 8:36am
The trip Up is a 100% charge for sure. Considering its a once a week trip I don't have any issue doing that as It lets the pack top balance once a week.

The trip back is early afternoon so charging to full and having the buffer lets me use the AC if a like(a must in QLD summer).

Weekdays I will try and keep the pack between 40-80% SOC say 6 - 12 kwh on the gauge. For city driving I will top up each night.I will have to rig up a timer on the charger.

It will be great when we are there full time soon and just making the trip to Brisbane once a month or so and just doing local driving in the hinterland and coast.

The liquid cooling system on the AC motor works great. To the touch the motor casing was only just warm perhaps 38-40 C on a 26 deg day thats after more than 1hrs driving and climbing the range at about 75kmh. Same for the motor controller to. I would like to install a protective mesh/grill on the front intake to the AC condenser and radiator. its so exposed to damage from a stone or stick. Our offgrid place in 2km down a old loggers trail that's just dirt.

Kurt



Edited by offgridQLD - 26 August 2013 at 8:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2013 at 10:23pm
Just considering the numbers there Kurt,

It would be good if you were able to measure the kWh from the plug on recharge to confirm 1kWh per energy meter division.

I record all trips with typical speed, temperature, wind direction and recharge kWh from the plug. (sad isn't it)
This is useful as the next time you do the trip you can have a blustery headwind for instance.

I did a run today 84km into a 30km/h headwind, rain, wipers, headlights 13 degC, mostly 106km/h on GPS and used 14kWh ! (166Wh/km)
I have done exactly the same trip with a tailwind, dry, 30 degC and used 9kWh (107Wh/km)

Not wanting to put a damper on things, just suggesting you do a few runs before expecting to be consistently better than the 135Wh/km nominal for the iMiEV.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 6:37am
I have taken a log of every charge from New

Including distance traveled, kwh consumed (going of the bars at 1 kwh - bar), the Kwh returned measured at the plug with meter and trip conditions are noted. To date I have charged the car 15 times all logged and will continue to do so. It's not hard I just keep the book with the charger. I did the same with my ebikes. One battery pack has well over 1000 cycles on it now.

Yes the bars on the dash gauge are lining up with 1kwh returned though some times its hard to know just where on a partially consumed bar you are.

Its very predictable if your on say 8kwh (8 bars) and you want to bring it up to say 12 I can just watch the meter at the plug and switch it off when its on 4kwh and the gauge in the car will always show 12 bars as predicted.

Example data from my logs comparing consumption vs returned KWH charging to full including balancing. (14kwh out 14.25kwh in) (13kwh out 13.65kwh in) (13kwh out 13.49 in) As I said before the (out) numbers are not exact due to not knowing where you are on a partially consumed bar.Good enough for my needs though.

Yes a change in conditions will change consumption. I will be doing some more runs over the 104km to find out the variations. I can always slow down or take the side roads if I get worried. That or just charge at one of the caravan parks. In the past 2 years of driving that same path I haven't had any strong head winds the odd cross wind across bridges and intersecting valleys. Though being QLD we have made the trip in some shocking rain before in summer.

Kurt

Edited by offgridQLD - 27 August 2013 at 6:56am
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