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iMiev battery size

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thardy456 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thardy456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: iMiev battery size
    Posted: 11 June 2016 at 1:49pm
Hi
I'm in Melbourne and I'm selling our awesome little iMiev.

Had a call from someone wanting to know the battery size? I thought they were all 16 kWh capacity but he said there is two sizes 10.5 kWh and 16 kWh.

Is there any easy way to tell? We are getting a range of approx. 90 to 100 km's.

My car is a Sep 2010 version.

I've checked the compliance plate but it doesn't say?

Thanks
Tony
Cheers, T.
2010 iMiEV (ex-WA)
2013 Leaf
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Greg partridge View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg partridge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2016 at 1:56pm
All Australian Imiev's are 16Kw hrs. Japan had a domestic 10.5 KW hr model.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thardy456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2016 at 11:27am
Hi Greg

Sorry didn't get around to thanking you for your info. :)
Cheers, T.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote g4qber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2017 at 4:16pm
After 5 years my 2011 export capacity Imiev has now become Japan only domestic Imiev with 10.5 kWh capacity.
It is now a volt in Imiev skin

Edited by g4qber - 03 January 2017 at 4:17pm
2011 i-MiEV - 87k kms
2014 i3 REx 90k kms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmscott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2017 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by g4qber g4qber wrote:

After 5 years my 2011 export capacity Imiev has now become Japan only domestic Imiev with 10.5 kWh capacity.
It is now a volt in Imiev skin

I'm starting to see (or imagine) my battery capacity juuust begin to erode. I've had my iMiev for about a year and a half and it had been very little-used prior to that (under 10,000km at age 5) so my recent use is about twice what it saw for all the previous years.

I'm wondering, is there a single number or percentage you can boil down to when it comes to battery stats? I'm thinking, if I decide to sell this car while it still can honestly claim over 100km range, I could go to a dealership and get a battery report or something.

Or dig out the ODB2 dongle I eventually gave up on and persuade it to pair at least momnetarily with a phone so I can get some stats that way...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote g4qber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2017 at 4:43am
I use evbatmon to determine battery health.
EvBatMon for Mitsubishi iMiEV by EV Positive Pty Ltd
https://appsto.re/au/dZPleb.i

Edited by g4qber - 10 January 2017 at 4:48am
2011 i-MiEV - 87k kms
2014 i3 REx 90k kms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmscott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by g4qber g4qber wrote:

I use evbatmon to determine battery health.
EvBatMon for Mitsubishi iMiEV by EV Positive Pty Ltd

Yeah, I have that app, part of the beta testing. I sent them a lot of details about my experiences but in the end, far worse than quirks in the app, the problem was with my dongles I think. I tried 4 different phone and 2 dongles and was never able to get a satisfactory experience.

Anyway - I guess just getting a read on max battery kWh and doing a percentage with the specified (16kWh) would be enough. I was just wondering if there was something official I was overlooking!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuggetgalore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2017 at 4:27am
Originally posted by bmscott bmscott wrote:

[QUOTE=g4qber] I use evbatmon to determine battery health.


Anyway - I guess just getting a read on max battery kWh and doing a percentage with the specified (16kWh) would be enough. I was just wondering if there was something official I was overlooking!

Hi bmscott, I just bought a 2010 iMiEV and am keen to learn more about it.
I am in Rowville, so if you are willing we could meet.
Thanks

[ Edit Coulomb: sorry for the very late approval of this moderated post. Now and then we miss one. ]

Edited by coulomb - 09 February 2017 at 6:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuggetgalore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2017 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by g4qber g4qber wrote:

I use evbatmon to determine battery health.
EvBatMon for Mitsubishi iMiEV by EV Positive Pty Ltd
https://appsto.re/au/dZPleb.i

With the help of bmscott I am able now to check the battery cell volts and temperature on my 2010 iMiEV (41600km).
I haven't progressed yet to the evbatmon app,only caniOn, very much a novice with smartphone gadgets.

All measurements were taken several hours after a 10km roundtrip and during about a 1km test drive (ave speed 25km/h).
Cell #18 is the odd one out at .001 volt higher than the rest.
Is that significant?
Today was a hot day ,the battery temp was 23C the coolest cellpack to 27C the warmest.Later in the day temps were about 25 to 31 C even before driving the identical test route.
Any comments if there is a looming problem greatly appreciated.
One day I hope somebody will teach me how to snap a screen shot.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuggetgalore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2017 at 9:03pm
Cell #18 is the odd one out at .001 volt higher than the rest.
Is that significant?
correction:.01V not .001V
tinker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuggetgalore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2017 at 8:53am
I have now the voltage readings of my iMiEV battery both at full charge and (near )empty.
I wonder where to find the spec for what it should be resp. what it tells regarding the degradation of the battery.
Full charge 4.07 to 4.08
empty (2 bars 10 km left) 3.740 to 3.75
Appreciate if some one can enlighten me.
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2017 at 9:22am
2 bars flashing on the dash gauge is over 20% SOC something like 22% from memory.

10mv variation is nothing that's fine.

typically when balanced the Imive is able to get all the cells within 5mv (even showing all 88 cell at 0mv variation) though the gauge resolution on cannon is only 5mv.

I think there is just a learning curve or perhaps its a acceptance curve that EV owners just have to go through regarding there battery's.

They degrade from the day they are manufactured. There are ways to treat the battery to limit this. Though its a compromise between actually being able to use the car (AS a car should be able to be used) and pampering the battery.

having a battery in a condition that is less than it was when it was brand new is normal and doesn't typically mean there is a fault with the battery or any one cell. Its just ageing as they all do.

Yes you could buy a Honda civic in 1985 and service it strictly to the book each year and still be driving it today over 30 years later and perhaps 500,000km of driving and even more likely so if you did very few km each year and say only had 200,000km on the clock the chances are even better.

Factor a battery replacement into the ownership of a EV if your planing to keep it for more than 10 years. (Just my personal guess ) I would say for the Imiev is a 30% reduction in capacity over 10 years if treated reasonably well.

So factor in a reasonable reduction in range over the 10 years.

A 2010 imiev is now 7 years old so if it had a very solid 100km range when new then 70km wouldn't be out of the question at the 10 year mark. Today at the 7 year mark an 80ish km range sounds reasonable.

Reset the clock again at the 10 year mark with a new battery and repeat. Divide the cost of the replacement battery over 10 years and see if your still happy. Even a $10,000 battery is only $1,000pa over that time.

My Imiev is a 2012 so 5 years old and it wouldn't be unreasonable to think it's lost 15% of it's capacity from new. If I loose another 15% over the next 5 years then that's OK.(as the new range vs the 30% reduced range still falls within my transport distance scope)

My downfall is a don't do enough miles each year. It has just 30,000km on it now and would only have 60 - 70,000km at the 10 year mark. Others have done 100,000km today at the 5 year mark and have gained the better value from there battery.




Edited by offgridQLD - 14 February 2017 at 8:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuggetgalore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2017 at 9:38am
Originally posted by offgridQLD offgridQLD wrote:

2 bars flashing on the dash gauge is over 20% SOC something like 22% from memory.


screen shot I took from empty blanked SOC out(still an amateur using the smart phone).
How far down the SOC range is it starting to hurt the battery?
I thought it was much lower than 3.7 Volts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2017 at 9:52am
I don't think the Imievs BMS would let you hurt the battery it's Idiot proof and shuts the car down well before harm can be done.

That said just like a RPM limiter on a ICE car will limit the RPM to 7,000rpm and not allow you to damage the engine. Its not best practice to drive around at 6,000 - 7,000rpm for max longevity of the engine.

So most people try and adopt a rule of thumb number to make a compromise between not using the battery at all and cycling it. 20% SOC is a good number (about where the two bars start flashing) though the odd dip to 15 - 10 even 8% wont kill the battery.

Edited by offgridQLD - 13 February 2017 at 9:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuggetgalore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2017 at 10:40am
thanks for that info. Makes me feel better .

by the way, my powermeter(confirmed with grid smartmeter)tells me from 2bar (ie ~20% soc) to fully charged it pumped in 12.8 Kwh.
RR from 10 to 99 km.
Previous :
Distance driven from full to 2 bar = 88.6 km (~145Wh/km).Included several very short trips ,on longer distances some were less than 100Wh/km)

So is the battery 16kwh (16 x 80% ~ 12.8) but I just cannot access it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2017 at 8:28am
The battery is 320v nominal and 50ah when new.

320 x 50 = 16,000 or 16kwh

Your 12.8kwh is AC kwh from the wall. That energy has to go through some AC/DC conversion along with running the cars (system on power requirements) So not all of that 12.8kwh AC that you measured is actually flowing into the battery as DC kwhs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the actual DC kWh that went into the battery to return it to full was only 10kwhs or so.

"So is the battery 16kwh (16 x 80% ~ 12.8) but I just cannot access it?"

Your assuming that your battery is still a 16kwh battery. Its unlikely that the cells have all the original 50ah available from new. You most likely cant access it as it isn't there anymore.

That said yes the full 50ah was never 100% available even when new.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote reecho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2017 at 5:51pm
Yep 16,280Wh on board but it charges to 4.105 volts per cell onboard. The LEV50 cells can go to 4.2 volts but Mitsubishi don't for longevity.

when you go down to 2.75 volts on one cell you loose power immediately...
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