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From Canberra: What the pollies think of EVs....

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Peter C in Canberra View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C in Canberra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: From Canberra: What the pollies think of EVs....
    Posted: 20 April 2010 at 6:01am
Here's some of the discussion from the Canberra mailing list. It was suggested we sent it to the national forum. So, here it is..... Start at the bottom and read up.

---------------------------------------------
And I sent the following to the two senators who received Bill's letter:

Dear Senators Carr and Humphries,

I wholeheartedly endorse Bill Gresham's letter below. To dismiss electric vehicles would be incredibly short-sighted.

To emphasize the point that electric, zero emission vehicles could easily be made here I will relate that I converted a petrol car to electric drive. Its performance is comparable to when it was a petrol car. I have no formal background in electronics or motor mechanics yet achieved the conversion for a similar price to a new small car, using lithium batteries. If I can do that then surely commercial businesses can. With the economies of scale of commercial manufacturing of zero-emission vehicles is achievable and economical and could be done more cheaply than I could achieve paying retail prices for components. Furthermore, we have the example of the Blade Electron, a converted Hyundai, with performance comparable to the Nissan or Mitsubishi, already produced in Australia.

I make a point of charging my car with the purchase of 100% greenpower, and it is still cheaper to run than any petrol car. Our family uses it for most of our city driving. This is the only way to maintain the luxury of private motorised transport while making a serious dint in the transport component of our greenhouse gas emissions. [By the way, I am pleased that this purchase of Greenpower will be counted as a voluntary reduction, additional to the large scale renewable energy target. Next, perhaps a few responsible Liberals could ignore the boof-head element of their party and join with the Greens to persuade Labour to pass the Greens improved version of the ETS-OK, that's dreaming!]

If either of you would like to try an electric car I will be happy for you to have a test drive in my car. There is nothing like actually driving one to know they are thoroughly viable. Feel free to ask.

Peter Campbell,,,,,,,,,,etc.
.....................................................................
Then let the Senator know what you think.
Yes, I see one of my sentences – isn't a sentence.
Bill



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Senator Kim Carr,
Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research
Parliament House,
Canberra, ACT.
senator.carr@aph.gov.au


Dear Senator Carr,

I have difficulty believing the lack of interest in electric cars attributed to you in the SMH article by Peter Dawkins (below). To deliberately exclude Australia from benefiting from the unique opportunites thrown up by the need to cut oil consumption to mitigate climate change.

The climate-change challenge has completely changed the car-making game – opening up new opportunities for companies and countries who are not wedded to the past – and bringing spectacular ruin to those who are.

I think that history will not treat kindly those who continue to subsidise (and otherwise promote) oil burning cars when a zero-emission alternative is available – both for the damage done to the global environment and the opportunities missed for Australian industry.

I draw your attention to the other article (below) entitled, "Mitsubishi aims for sub-$30,000 price tag on U.S. i-MiEV" by Erik Loveday.

Yours sincerely

Bill Gresham

12 Liverpool Street
Macquarie 2614

19 April 2010

CC Senator Humphries.


*Mitsubishi aims for sub-$30,000 price tag on U.S. i-MiEV
by Eric Loveday (RSS feed) on Apr 2nd 2010 at 1:01PM*


When Nissan announced an almost unbelievably low price for its upcoming Leaf electric vehicle, one automaker was quick to respond. Mitsubishi immediately announced a $6,700 reduction of its i-MiEV electric vehicle in Japan and now the company has stated that the vehicle will come to the U.S. with a sub-$30,000 price tag!

The i-MiEV will go on sale in the states in 2011 and Mitsubishi does not want to be outdone by Nissan. To that end, the company will aggressively price the i-MiEV below $30k. Even better news is that the target price set by Mitsubishi does not take into account the $7,500 credit that will be available at the launch of the vehicle. So, with the credit, the i-MiEV should come in around $22,000, less than a typical Toyota Prius. This pricing information is not a well traveled rumor, it comes straight from Mitsubishi Motor North America spokesman Maurice Durand, who told Ward's Auto at the New York Auto Show that, "We're targeting sub-$30,000 for the U.S. when it launches." Durand told AutoblogGreen that Mitsubishi, "is very much aware of Nissan's pricing."

Even with a low price, the i-MiEV may have a difficult time taking sales away from the Leaf. If pricing holds true, the Leaf will run you about $3,000 more than an i-MiEV, but for that change you get a very well-equipped vehicle capable of carrying five people with adequate performance and all the amenities found in traditional vehicles. Even if the i-MiEV falls short of the Leaf in the features category, the vehicles will fight for sales and the brewing price war is a great sign of what to expect as more EVs come to market.


Ref: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/04/02/mitsubishi-aims-for-sub-30-000-price-tag-on-u-s-i-miev/


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


It's back to the bowser in the race to the future
PETER HAWKINS
April 18, 2010
THE federal government has ruled out offering incentives for electric cars, preferring to support existing oil-based technology.

Consumer subsidies such as those offered by overseas governments are crucial to ensuring Australian buyers can access the limited supply of electric cars, car companies say.

The first production electric car, Mitsubishi's i-MiEV, which will arrive at the end of the year, is understood to cost about $70,000.

The federal government instead believes the future of the car industry lies in the development of existing technology across petrol, diesel and LPG engines.

''It's not our intention to run programs to support any particular form of technology,'' Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research Kim Carr said.

''Over the next decade, the most rapid and cost-effective way of improving fuel economy and building more environmentally effective cars is to adapt technologies that are being deployed now.''

The government will spend $1.3 billion over the next 10 years to increase production of cleaner, more efficient vehicles. But the money is going to manufacturers, such as Toyota, for the development of the hybrid Camry, rather than consumers in the form of rebates or tax incentives.

Senator Carr said the decision would ensure Australia had a sustainable automotive industry that continued to produce Australian-made cars and employ more than 60,000 people.

He said the government would not be investing in any infrastructure for electric cars, such as charging stations, and that the rising cost of electricity was a factor.

Referring to a US National Research Council report, Senator Carr said the high cost of lithium-ion batteries limited charging stations. Electric cars will make up only 13 million of the 300 million cars in the US by 2030.

''We want [to develop] Australian-made vehicles on Australian roads to the highest level we can,'' Senator Carr said. ''The evidence at the moment suggests that the economics would have to improve dramatically for there to be a significant change in consumer preference.''

Mitsubishi Australia head of corporate communications Lenore Fletcher said the company had high demand for the i-MiEV, mainly from large corporations.

It expects to receive about 10 plug-in i-MiEV vehicles a month from October.

The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries said electric car sales were unlikely to have an impact on the Australian market in the short term because they were still in the development phase.

But the cars had a future in this country and the government needed to start doing more to attract car manufacturers to our shores.

''It is important that in the Australian market we look to be part of that emerging trend as early as possible,'' chief executive Andrew McKellar said.

''Some of those incentives that are being implemented overseas are very substantial. If we are to secure supply in the Australian market in substantial numbers then we need a competitive policy and that needs to be evaluated.''

Mr McKellar said incentives built demand which encouraged further investment in the development of technology and the battery.

University of Technology Sydney researcher Chris Dunstan said electric cars offered health benefits in terms of local air pollution and, unless they were charged in Victoria, which used brown coal, they were no worse for the environment.

Mr Dunstan, the research director at the university's Institute for Sustainable Futures, said several major issues concerning electric cars were still to be addressed, including if owners would have to use green power and where and when they could charge their batteries.

''We need to make sure we are thinking about the energy supply infrastructure and how we manage it. It goes back to not just having the technology right but the incentives also,'' he said.

Mr Dunstan said 100 per cent renewable power was cheaper than petrol and the price of batteries was coming down.

''If Australia was to embrace this technology more, then there's potential for us to be a significant player in what's likely to be a multibillion-dollar industry in the next few years,'' he said.

Dr Peter Pudney, from the University of South Australia, said the more electric cars sold, the cheaper they would become.

He is calling for a push towards renewable energy and the need for immediate action.

He said incentives did not have to be financial but could be the introduction of low-emission parking spaces and traffic lanes.

















Bernardus Mettes wrote:
Precisely, Stephen, EVs are getting some mediocre press coverage at the moment.

The SMH report says: "The first production electric car, Mitsubishi's
i-MiEV, which will arrive at the end of the year, is understood to
cost about $70,000."

That pricetag is not going to raise people's enthusiasm for EVs. If
you read reports overseas, the picture is quite different. The iMiev
is scheduled for sale in the U.S. in 2011 for under $30,000 - that's
before a $7,500 federal tax credit and state rebates of $5,000 in
states such as California, which would bring the cost for customers
down to under $17,500.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/04/02/mitsubishi-aims-for-sub-30-000-price-tag-on-u-s-i-miev/

As I said, it's high time for the AEVA to start advocating more
incentives for EVs and better informing the media about EVs.

Cheers,
Ben


On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Stephen Wootten <woots@bigpond.com> wrote:

and while you are looking at the SMH re EV's and policy, check this out:

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/its-back-to-the-bowser-in-the-race-to-the-future-20100417-slhk.html


Bernardus Mettes wrote:
   
This appeared today in the Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/a-sensible-tax-for-our-hospitals-20100418-smhx.html

Today, at the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) meeting, the
Prime Minister will try to get the premiers and chief ministers to
agree to his health and hospitals plan. A low to moderate carbon tax
would raise in the order of $3 billion to $7 billion a year and a
substantial proportion of this could be used to fund Rudd's health
package.

The above was suggested by Andrew Macintosh, who is associate director
and Tom Faunce associate professor at the Australian National
University Centre for Climate Law and Policy. It was followed by a
poll and by comments.

This would be a good opportunity for the AEVA to argue that such
revenues should be used to fund clean transport, specifically EVs.

Cheers,
Ben

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 6:33am
EVs are exempt from fuel excise - a major car use tax. This is about $8/100km, which is way better than any other subsidy I've heard of. There would be many free political miles out of making a big announcent of guaranteeing this for 10 years or forever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 6:36am
The solution is obvious... Develop the technology here, sell it to a large overseas corporation for peanuts and buy it back at a premium, then and only then will it be a wonderful idea that we must have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marcopolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Peter C in Canberra Peter C in Canberra wrote:

Dear Senators Carr and Humphries,


Soooo....did you ever receive an intelligent response from these Representatives of the People?

What, no photo opportunity? No feel good little sound bites?

Lobbying by Oil and Automakers is often mistaken believed to be the reason behind the negative reaction to EV's by Federal governments.

In fact Toyota was startled, (but delighted), to receive a huge government subsidy for the production of the Toyota Aurion Hybrid! Toyota neither sought, nor expected such largess! (outside of the normal wingeing!).

Both BP and Ford have advocated an 'alternate Fuel R&D tax' to be placed on the price of petrol. This levy would fund R&D for Solar, Battery,etc.. and help to pay for EV charging post infrastructure.

The Rudd government is not just disinterested, it is actively discouraging EV development!

Why? At a guess it is the unions, and fear of entrenched interests in the public service.

It's one thing to be like Howard and openly promote LPG and Ethanol to the exclusion of all else, and another like Rudd to claim environmental credentials, while covertly sabotaging EV transport.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EVNoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 5:37pm
Here's the thing, we shouldn't need government incentives? Clearly this is the future and it is affordable to the average Australian to convert their car (With $3000 spent on petrol only by the average Melbourian car driver a year, plus the costs of the car ie: finance, servicing etc), the problem is not thinking outside of the box when buying a new car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coulomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by woody woody wrote:

EVs are exempt from fuel excise - a major car use tax. This is about $8/100km, which is way better than any other subsidy I've heard of.

That's a really interesting observation. However, I believe that the US also taxes petrol ("gasoline" there), even if it isn't quite as high as our tax.

[Edit: major maths error!    ]
[Edit2: Then I forgot to multiply by 5 for 5 years. Sigh. So the original figure was right, just out by a factor of 10, is all ;-) ]

If you consider just 5 years of ownership, and 10,000 km driven per year, that's AU$800/yr or $4000 in subsidy. If their gasoline subsidy is half ours, they'd get AU$2000 plus US$7500 plus US$5000 from some U.S. states.

So they get three subsidies to our one, and it adds up to substantially more.

[Edit 3: Then again, if you keep your EV for about 15 years, we'll eventually do better. Also, our subsidy effectively goes up with the price of oil, while theirs erodes with inflation. ]

Edited by coulomb - 20 April 2010 at 7:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marcopolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by EVNoob EVNoob wrote:

Here's the thing, we shouldn't need government incentives? Clearly this is the future and it is affordable to the average Australian to convert their car (With $3000 spent on petrol only by the average Melbourian car driver a year, plus the costs of the car ie: finance, servicing etc), the problem is not thinking outside of the box when buying a new car.


Possibly you are correct.

However that is no excuse for the blind stupidity and lack of vision by either of these two hypocritical politicians! Nor for the lack of any reply!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marcopolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 8:05am
In contrast to the Rudd government, the Japanese government has ridden to the aid of its beleaguered EV car makers, by declaring that 50% of Japanese road transport will be EV or significantly Hybrid. The Japanese have not 'appointed Better Place' to build charging stations, but invited tenders for the construction of a network, or networks, of charging stations.

This is a very significant development and should have a serious consequence for Australia given our reliance of Japanese imports.

It's a great opportunity for the Rudd government actually do something of substance, and assist the states to require power utilities to construct a charging post network. If the Rudd government is so anxious to preserve the long term jobs ($60,000) in the auto industry, then here is the perfect opportunity to subsidise the changeover with the three major car makers, thereby ensuring Australia is at the very forefront of the transport revolution.

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