AEVA Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > The Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - PIP-4048MS inverter
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

PIP-4048MS inverter

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 626364
Author
Message
paulvk View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 23 October 2015
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulvk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 8:32am
I built a TL494 PWM speed control for my truck radiator fans many years ago and had failures of fets (100v rated), current was around 50amps with 2 fans I put it on my CRO and saw spikes over 100v, I had some 16v 5watt zeners I put one across the fets now over 10years later under the bonnet in the heat and still going strong.
Maybe a 60-70v zener will work here?
Back to Top
weber View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 23 January 2009
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 2470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 10:23am
Originally posted by paulvk paulvk wrote:

... Maybe a 60-70v zener will work here?

Hi Paul. Unfortunately the existing MOSFETs (and my proposed 100 V replacements) have zeners built in to them. They are referred to as "avalanche" diodes in the datasheets because technically the "zener" effect only operates at voltages below about 10 volts. But clearly this hasn't saved them.

They can only absorb a certain amount of energy per spike; 200 millijoules in the case of the existing MOSFETs, assuming the spikes don't come too close together. 200 mJ might not sound like much, but if the spike only lasts for 10 microseconds, that's 20 kilowatts or 267 amps at 75 volts. Which argues that any overvoltage had to last significantly longer than 10 us. Which argues for the unstable voltage-control-loop theory and against the voltage-spike theory, now that I think about it.

Edited by weber - 15 February 2017 at 10:25am
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).
Back to Top
andys View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 20 July 2016
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 10:33am
Given the terribly slow reaction times of the rest of the system (eg. turn off appliance and it takes 10 seconds to ramp down solar input when the battery is already full and supposed to be on float charge)...

It sounds highly plausible to me that it doesn't react fast enough with sudden loads applied with unfortunate timing.
Back to Top
paulvk View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 23 October 2015
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulvk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 1:53pm
Had diodes in my mosfets but they still died I even tried transorb diodes these also died but the metal stud zener lives on doing the job.
Note the zener diode is across the fet not on the gates.
The spikes may be back emf from the transformer.

"takes 10 seconds to ramp down solar input" I do not see this on my systems.

Edited by paulvk - 15 February 2017 at 2:01pm
Back to Top
weber View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 23 January 2009
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 2470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by paulvk paulvk wrote:

... I had some 16v 5watt zeners I put one across the fets now over 10years later under the bonnet in the heat and still going strong.

I think you'll find your stud mount zener is rated at considerably more than 5 watts. All MOSFETs have diodes built in, but not all have avalanche (aka "zener") diodes built in. And yes, I meant drain to source, as I assumed you did.

Edited by weber - 15 February 2017 at 2:21pm
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).
Back to Top
offgridQLD View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 July 2013
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 2069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 5:55pm
Today I had our Imiev in the shed and was charging it (usually I charge it in the garage from the houses selectronic inverter) in the shed today it was charging from the pip 3200w load.

I had the issue again as the imiev started to ramp down it's charge rate near 100% SOC the pip went Into a cycle where the voltage would swing from 215v -240v cycling up and down.

I have charged a few times over the past few years from the pip but it's only been a mid charge top up for a few hrs so didn't encounter the issue.

I think I will avoid using it to charge the imiev for now due to this behaviour.
Back to Top
coulomb View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 22 January 2009
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 3301
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coulomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2017 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by offgridQLD offgridQLD wrote:

I had the issue again as the imiev started to ramp down it's charge rate near 100% SOC the pip went Into a cycle where the voltage would swing from 215v -240v cycling up and down.

Not in the same league, but I have noticed a small number of loads seem to upset the PIP's inverter:
  • Atten 858D hot air gun (variable temperature)
  • Kmart induction cooker

When I say "upset", I just notice the LED lights flickering slightly. Nothing to be concerned about, unless yo are prone to epilepsy I suppose.

Anyone else noticed any other loads that cause the inverter's voltage to fluctuate slightly?

[ Edit: inducxtion heater -> induction cooker ]

Edited by coulomb - 17 February 2017 at 6:13pm
Learning how to repair and re-flash TC/Elcon chargers and PIP-4048 inverter-chargers.
Back to Top
offgridQLD View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 July 2013
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 2069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote offgridQLD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2017 at 5:10pm
I should add that is wasn't just the voltage swing up and down on the display the load was jumping up and down to.

It's like the pip is controlling the pilot signal to the imievs charger and make it ramp up and down.Though it's only triggered when the charger varies the charge rate.

Not always as every time you start the charge it slowly ramps up and it never gets upset with this ramp up. Its only the ramp down at the end.

That said some times the imiev pauses the charge mid charge for a few mins and then continues to charge (normal behavior) The pip will get upset by this as the charger ramps up again to continue charging.

So it's a bit of a oddball thing.So you cant charge the car untended encase it gets into this cycle.

heat guns and induction cookers upset most inverter a little I have a fixed setting heat gun that's ok but the variable one is no good on the inverter.
Back to Top
andys View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 20 July 2016
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:57am
Stumbled on this today, serves as a reminder what nice things you can have when you pay over twice as much:

Very similar specs to PIP4048, but with 35W idle. Even supports Li/LiFePO4 packs. Can't be daisy chained.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-EasySolar-with-Color-Control-EN.pdf
Back to Top
andys View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 20 July 2016
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:09am
Yes coulumb, I discovered my fridge lights flickering badly at about 10Hz the other day, through a process of elimination found out it was the Sunbeam slow cooker (crock pot).

I thought it was just a simple resistive heating element of around 500 watts. I won't use it on the PIP anymore.
Back to Top
weber View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 23 January 2009
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 2470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 1:29pm
I suspect the common theme in all these appliances that upset the PIP is that they use phase control and so may have spikey current waveforms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-fired_controllers

Edited by weber - Yesterday at 1:30pm
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).
Back to Top
paulvk View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 23 October 2015
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulvk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 2:04pm
I have a K-Mart induction unit , I also have some harmonic filters.
I will see if I get the problem and see if the filter fixes it.
Back to Top
PlanB View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 January 2010
Location: Freemans reach
Status: Offline
Points: 529
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlanB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 12 minutes ago at 2:39pm
There was a mob in Melbourne (power & interference consultants I think) used to flog a portable ferroresonant line conditioner back in the 90s (couple of hundred bucks from memory). Very effective deglitcher, about he size of a housebrick, weighed 3 times as much! Be interesting to see if the harmonic filters do any good, the ferroresonant was a bit lossy.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 626364
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.03
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.