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EV2Go's - Lithium Powered Trike

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    Posted: 08 January 2010 at 3:52pm
Well I have bitten the bullet and the spending begins...

while I anticipate this project will take a while, try my patience, make me loose my hair, and seriously dent the wallet. I have taken the first step and purchased some 9" diff gears for my upcoming trike. Details are still a bit sketchy and will only really finalise as I start building, but the rough guidelines will be:

Trike:
1) Front wheel and suspension resembling motorcycle heritage.
2) Rear wheels and diff of the car persuasion
3) Currently designing battery space for 80 x 60Ah SE batteries, 288v. old info (Between 36 and 45 lithium batteries depending on choice of motor),
4) Motor will be a 250v - 11" Kostov. old info (Motor AC or DC, good chance it will wind up being a TransWarp 9" or TransWarp 11")
5) Controller Soliton1 - already purchased. old info (Zilla 1k LV or AC controller if I go AC)
6) Frame is going to be custom built by myself, diff is likely to be solid mounted at this point in time.
7) Rear Brakes - reconditioned calipers off Nissan S13/180sx, new Nissan S15 Brembo disc rotors.

Budget: now likely to be 35k+. old info (I envisage it will probably wind up costing me somewhere around 25-30k)

Let the cursing begin...

Edit: A number of items have changed since my initial post so just updating with current data.

Quick List:
diff center
diff housing
seat and controller
axles
chassis ideas
front and rear wheels, refined design
rotors and front mudgaurd
motor

Edited by EV2Go - 09 October 2010 at 9:26am
I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2010 at 3:56pm
Diff gears:



Ford 9" 3.10:1 'Gleason' Nascar gear set

This crown wheel & pinion set are brand new and in perfect faultless condition. This is the top off the line gear set made by Gleason USA. Gleason have become the top choice in

the USA for Nascar, Indy Car And NHRA. There light weight gear sets run cooler, use less horsepower to operate & reduce rotating weight. This set has been deburred, shot peened

& coated to reduce wear resistance. The crown wheel has been back cut, scalloped & pocket milled to reduce weight. These gears have proven to generate more horsepower on chassis

dyno testing due to there latest design of tooth profile axis. This set originally cost over $1000.00 once race prepared so grab a bargain! They will fit any Ford 9" carrier &

still maintains the original 28 spline input for standard or modified diff yokes. Buyer will not be disapointed.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2010 at 5:57pm
Well that takes the cake ! I've never seen an EV project start with the crown and pinion gear set for the diff !!!

This is going to be a must watch project ! Go for it EV2Go !
iMiEV MY12     95,100km in pure Electric and loving it !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2010 at 6:23pm
lol while it may seem like an unusual place to start there is a bit of method to the madness. The strength of the diff and how well it comes together / parts I use dictates what my options are for a motor.

Once I decide on a motor that will then give me the set length of the motor.

Once I have the combined length of the diff and motor I can set about fabricating the rear section of the chassis.

I will be aiming to keep the rear section of the chassis as short as possible to give me a decent battery area, while keeping some form of perportion.

I have put together a bit of a list of diff parts I need from Strange Engineering so I am just waiting to hear back from them with a quote.

The setup I am looking at is not going to be particularly cheap but it is functional.

N1904 Strange 9" lightweight aluminium 3.250" bore case w/forged aluminium caps, steel adjuster nuts & pinion support bolts (Strange)
N1970B Ford 9" ring gear (31 spline/all ratios) clutch type (with billet half)
N1914 / N1916 Daytona style taper bearing support - Iron
U2203 Strange S-Series yoke (fits 28 spline pinion) 1350 series
U1610 U-bolt kit for all 1350 series pinion yokes (pr)
U1640 High impact solid 1350 series u-joint
U1650 G.M. T-400, 4L80E, & 2nd design Super T-10 / 32 spline / 1350 series (Spicer H.D) (G=5,500 H= 1,885)
H1115 9" housing with tubes & choice of Strange housing ends (3.150"ID) installed, includes filler and drain assembly

Seeking their advice on the right axles for the combo.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote a4x4kiwi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2010 at 9:34am
hmm 6.5:1 diffs available. Good for a rewound AC :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2010 at 3:48pm
AC really isn't an option unless I go for the 96v motor...
response from Strange Engineering. Needs converting to $AU plus freight.

Here are the prices on the parts.
N1901 $379.50 you will need the 3.062 case for that posi unit.
N1970B $396.00
N1914 $90.00
U2203 $89.50
U1610 $11.55
U1641 $28.25 U1640 no longer available
U1650 $57.00
H1115 $439.45 our center housing is 22” wide.
R5236 $127.96 complete bearing installation kit.
As far as putting the brackets on that would be up to you. The shipping would be sent out freight collect because all these parts would need to be crated up and shipped truck freight. As far as the axles go we can do a 31 spline street axle set-up for $396.00. Any other questions feel free to let us know. Thanks

Not wanting to seem less educated than necessary, but can someone please explain in laymans terms what they mean with regards to the freight. It sounds to me like they are saying they are loose items and I would need to organise packing and courier, am I reading that right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squiggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2010 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by a4x4kiwi a4x4kiwi wrote:

hmm 6.5:1 diffs available. Good for a rewound AC :)


Available from where?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2010 at 8:15pm
Any of the name brand gearset manufactures Strange, Richmond etc all make something around that ratio. Only problem is it will be a drag set which is physically heavier to withstand drag racing and also a different pitch to the street gears and have more mechanical drag.
Diff Ratios Page 37

Edited by EV2Go - 09 January 2010 at 8:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carv'n Marv'n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2010 at 7:14am
...any chance of getting this beastie to lean?? like the Honda Gyro or Monkey Trike??
Williams Electric - Tilting Trikes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2010 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by Carv'n Marv'n Carv'n Marv'n wrote:

...any chance of getting this beastie to lean?? like the Honda Gyro or Monkey Trike??


That's a big ask for a home made trike. I am looking for it to have some substantial poke, so much of what I need to focus on means things need to be solidly mounted.

Just finalising an order with Strange Engineering in the US for a complete custom diff, axles, centre package which will be solidly mounted to the chassis.

Hoping to place the order in the next few days.

Edit:

You know maybe that's not such a bad idea... since I am pretty much stuck with a bike front end (mostly tyre) I could get better millage out of the front tyre if it leaned.

Mind you you face the same problem as I was looking at with having rear suspension and that is if diff and motor move the wiring will also move. Can't keep motor still and move diff because not enough length for tailshaft. IRS makes it too wide.   

Edited by EV2Go - 11 January 2010 at 3:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carv'n Marv'n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2010 at 4:59pm
look at the Honda Gyro more closely - also the Carver - the motor and diff can stay fixed - with the front end tilting. Potentially having all weight over the fixed section, including batteries. The tilting section can be made quite light.

It can be achieved quite simply... bit of lateral thinking required.

Williams Electric - Tilting Trikes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2010 at 12:40pm
Been giving this a little more thought... While I really like the idea of a tilting trike it's not all that practical for the type of trike I am building.

Most of those trikes are light weight, limited range etc, but I am looking to build the equivilant of a drag trike. I am looking at carrying the same battery capacity or more as some converted cars.

Also looking at now using a TransWarp 11 motor to get it moving, so really need to keep the frame fairly rigid for when it gets a wristful.

Need to start looking at the purchase of motor and controller I was thinking about evcomponents does anyone know of a cheaper or better place to buy?

Actually before I do that I would appreciate your thought on Kostov 11" vs TransWarp 11". Which would make the most power at say 150v. 100Ah batteries and Zilla 1k LV controller.

Edited by EV2Go - 12 January 2010 at 12:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2010 at 12:47pm
Yes, I can see the tilting trike tilting you right (or left) into the pavement when you hit the throttle, unless the motor doesn't tilt...
Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2010 at 12:51pm
agree both motor and diff would need to be fixed and only the body tilt, but then again at say 100mph would you want the body doing its own thing? Can't say I much care for the thought...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carv'n Marv'n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2010 at 8:49am
...say at 100MPH, would you want to attempt to take a corner with a rigid trike??
Body won't be doing it's own thing, it would not want to drop you on the pavement or do crazy unexpected things. When you give it power it would want to bring you upright again - same as a two wheeled motorbike.

...in the sketch - the pivot line is just above the footboards - hinged at two points. The footboards are part of the rear section, and remain level at all times. The front section could be spring loaded to help it return upright (gently) or hold it upright in a parked position.




Edited by Carv'n Marv'n - 13 January 2010 at 11:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2010 at 1:24pm
Only problem I see there is where you have an open frame I will have about 140kgs of batteries. The other issue is to fit 44-100Ah batteries it will consume all of the available space between the seat and the forks.

I have done numerous calculation and even running the minimum 4" (100mm)ground clearance, I am still pushing it a bit to not be too tall.

As I say I like the idea it just isn't practical for the sort of trike I am building...

BTW only plan to do 100mph in a straight line at the drags, have no intentions of trying to corner at those speeds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieJester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2010 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by EV2Go EV2Go wrote:



You know maybe that's not such a bad idea... since I am pretty much stuck with a bike front end (mostly tyre) I could get better millage out of the front tyre if it leaned.


The rake on the forks takes care of the wear on the side of the tire, my front tire of my trike wears pretty much like a standard two wheel bike. Many ICE trikes are not built leaning, they corner well tilting is nice but i wouldn't be too focused on it, its complicated to setup...

Best of luck anywayz...

KiM

p.s for a diff you might want too look up Fiora machinery on the net, they are local to me and build fantastic trikes, they are available in kits for also i believe...

Edited by AussieJester - 20 January 2010 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2010 at 10:16pm
I remember checking out your trike some time ago thinking how great it looked for a "non professional" job.

Diff is pretty much under control and the first $3000+ of the budget has already been allocated. I have been in correspondence with Strange Engineering in the US and I am getting them to fabricate me a custom 9" housing and axles.

The rest of the diff bits are off the shelf Strange items, they are a bit expensive but by the time you buy a 9" housing off ebay and mod it to suit it is nearly as cheap to buy new.

I was originally aiming to make it a hard tail but after going to the drags on the weekend, the ride out there convinced me I had to have suspension.

So although it is a lot more work, I am looking at building an IRS rear end. Before I can get the axles made up I need to work out what what I am going to use for uni / CV joints.

I would like something that uses 1350 series uni, so I am thinking about seeing what can be found on IRS 4WDs.

Any suggestions are welcome. If I can get something that uses 1350 series I can use the yoke and solid drive shafts from Strange.

Only really need to sort out the inner diff first so I can get the axles made to suit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2010 at 1:27pm
Ok time again to seek the assistance of those who have better search skills than myself...

Instead of using the Strage housing and axles (~$900 US) I have been looking at the Dutchman IRS rear end housing



Only problem is the cost... $1400 US for the bare housing and axles $2150 US with the Wilwood brakes. Then over $1200 US for the 3rd member, diff center, coupler etc, it is going to cost me over $4000 US by the time I add drive shafts.

If anyone knows of a cheaper 9" IRS housing with CV or 1350 series uni joints I would be grateful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieJester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2010 at 1:45pm
Looks alot like a jag rear end



Additional pics

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/0802rc_independent_rear_suspension/photo_02.html

Hot Rod crowd have been using them for many years behind big HP V8s
if they stand up to that im sure you lil lecky motor wont worry it :-)

KiM

Edited by AussieJester - 28 January 2010 at 1:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squiggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2010 at 2:21pm
My friends GT40 replica uses a Porsche transaxle, anything wrong with the good old VW unit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieJester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2010 at 3:00pm
^^^prolly the fact his 1000 dollar Nascar 9in gear set wont fit in a VW...soz didn't realise that when i posted the Jag rear end either...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2010 at 1:58pm
Issues...

weight: so it is preferable to have the housing made of alloy
Age: using second hand components comes with it's own set of issues especially something not overly common or available off the shelf.
Ratio: 9" offer better range of ratios to get the gearing right.

In hindsight I should have probably kept the IRS and brakes out of my 180sx and gone that way.

I was hoping that someone may have seen an alloy 9" case like the Dutchmans but at a more competative price. Can see this costing me way over $4000 for just the diff not a cheap way to start the project...

Looking at different ways to trim some cost out of the project but so far the cost cutting is mimimal.

I have decided against going with the Strange housing even though the Dutchman housing is dearer, I just cant afford the additonal 10 plus inches width the Strange housing would bring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EV2Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2010 at 2:15pm
what I am trying to do is more like this ( but using a 9" instead)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Electrocycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2010 at 5:31pm
you don't really need IRS on a trike.

I probably still have an S13 rear suspension setup if you wanted to try one, but I think a normal solid diff would be the way to go.
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