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ATV Quad

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Kyphonii View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 June 2017 at 11:27am
Hi.
I'm looking in to converting a ATV quad bike.
The Vehicle is to be used on reserves and protected area's.

The ATV that we are looking at is the 2wd 250 cc range like the Suzuki Ozark and the Honda 250 quad.
Really only need this size quad for its dimensions and simplicity.

The vehicle will not need speed but more low speed torque and range.

We have access to a good workshop and a third year electrical engineering student, other than that we are new to this.
The shopping list /parts recommended for this project ?
Due to the remote location of the projects we need to be able to charge up over night or have a second battery pack.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 2:05pm
Just add that it's for research and monitoring of sensitive and protected areas.
cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonescg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 8:09pm
Several of our members have been involved with ATV conversions over the years - Geoff O'Toole (GT Tooling, NSW) and Rod Dilkes (EV Power, WA) come to mind. Since you are in Townsville I'd suggest lining some ideas up with Graeme at Suzi Autos in Logan - he can supply various kit too.

There's a whole bunch of cheap Motenergy motors hitting the market at the moment, as well as suitable controllers to run them. Batteries will be the challenge - what sort of range are you looking at? 30 km a day at 15 km/h? 50 km a day? I can see about 6 kWh being a reasonable battery for such a machine.
I challenge you to come up with a better invention than the bicycle
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Kyphonii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 9:44am
I shall follow up with those guys you mentioned.
Range is the big issue out on remote projects.
It's not really dangerous as we have plenty of contingency plans and support vehicles.
The set up would need to focus on range with a vehicle weight about 250kg and a payload of 150kg including the rider. Enough low end torque to get through the rough stuff.
If we could swap out battery packs that might be a interesting option for availability.
What motor type best suits these requirements.?
Water proofing would need to be considered.
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Kyphonii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 9:46am
Change that vehicle weight to 350kg plus 150kg payload.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Kyphonii Kyphonii wrote:


The Vehicle is to be used on reserves and protected area's.

Off road act says you can't run then in reserves or protected area's.
It's kind of like saying you want a drag car to drive to work.
Only designated off road areas and private property.
No foot paths, parks, roads or verges either.
So we'll pretend that this is a special permit vehicle...
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Kyphonii Kyphonii wrote:

What motor type best suits these requirements?
Water proofing would need to be considered.


Well DC motors would probably be out as almost all are vented.
It'll suck in mud and water and kill it.

The Motenergy ME1304 and ME1507 motors appear to be sealed enough.

If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by Kyphonii Kyphonii wrote:

Hi.

The shopping list /parts recommended for this project ?

Oh that'd be the usual:

Motor
Motor controller
Traction fuse
Batteries
Battery management system (BMS)
Motor to drive shaft coupling
Motor mount
Battery box
Electric twist throttle
Phat wires
Cable ties
Patience
Extended book of curse words
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Kyphonii Kyphonii wrote:

Enough low end torque to get through the rough stuff.


Well the electric motors would be better at this than the original petrol motor.
No clutch, No stall - just twist and go.

I think the biggest issue, as with any bike, will be trying to squeeze it all in.
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by Richo Richo wrote:

Originally posted by Kyphonii Kyphonii wrote:


The Vehicle is to be used on reserves and protected area's.

Off road act says you can't run then in reserves or protected area's.
It's kind of like saying you want a drag car to drive to work.
Only designated off road areas and private property.
No foot paths, parks, roads or verges either.
So we'll pretend that this is a special permit vehicle...

We are subcontractors.
We have a contract with the relevant authorities.
Requires Conditional registration.
We have been using conventional ATV for about 15 years on projects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Richo Richo wrote:

Originally posted by Kyphonii Kyphonii wrote:

What motor type best suits these requirements?
Water proofing would need to be considered.


Well DC motors would probably be out as almost all are vented.
It'll suck in mud and water and kill it.

The Motenergy ME1304 and ME1507 motors appear to be sealed enough.


I'm a Boilermaker specialising in Aluminium fabrication and was thinking about enclosing the motor in a water proof mount with a vent opening higher up the frame. ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2017 at 12:28pm
Oooh ali fab

The 2 motors I listed shouldn't need an additional case.
Just weld a plate somewhere on the frame, bolt the motor to it, fit your sprocket and go!
Sounds easy

If you have a shaft driven ATV could be tricker me thinks...
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2017 at 12:41pm
Looking around at the petrol eqv they are 15kW 20Nm for a 250cc.

The sevcon 48V 450A controller would be in the ball park.
And if you're not after speed then 48V is reasonably safe to work with.
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2017 at 1:03pm
Doing a roll down test on the ATV will help determine the battery pack size you would need for a given range.
Note this is different to a roll over test
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2017 at 3:25pm
How to load a image on the post ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MDK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2017 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Kyphonii Kyphonii wrote:

How to load a image on the post ?


It's a bit tricky, which is why there's a dedicated thread explaining how.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 12:50pm
I probably wouldn't recommend prismatic cells for a quad.
So this would limit you to ex Leaf cells, headway, possibly some form of pouch or 18650 cell.

6S leaf modules would give 45.6V 60Ah ~2.7kWh perhaps ~$1200.
15S6P headway cells would be 48V 60Ah ~2.8kWh perhaps ~$2400.

In one of the other posts something like 6kWh would be a suggested pack size.
So you would have to double what I mentioned.
But I have no way of telling how far you want to go or have any roll down data to even make a guess on what is required for you application.

The above would weigh 25-30kg.
So if you were making "swap out" packs you may want to limit the size to 2.8kWh modules.
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 12:54pm
So for motor, controller and 2.7kWh pack you're up for $3,700.
And you still need all the mechanics, battery box, bms, charger, fuses, throttle and book of extended curse words...

Is this even in the ball park of what you were expecting?
If the sun's not up turn your lights ON - duh! Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!!
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Kyphonii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 2:00pm
Thats with in the ball park.
cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Richo Richo wrote:

Doing a roll down test on the ATV will help determine the battery pack size you would need for a given range.
Note this is different to a roll over test



What are the perimeters for the roll down test.?
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Kyphonii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 3:33pm

This is a quad available in England.
The spec seem pretty ordinary but it seems to work ?
Opinion on these spec's ?

http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/GREENCARS/electric-quad-bike.htm
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Kyphonii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 3:52pm
The eco charge quad is a 15kw DC permanent magnet.
4 Quadrant with micro-processor control.
sealed AGM battery 110AH
25 amp intelligent charger.
200amp main system fuse.
400kg dry weight
range 15miles to 25 miles.

Hummmm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonescg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 4:37pm
400 kg is epic. With lithium that could be as low as 250 kg. The battery space available would surely be in the area once occupied by the IC engine. The motor would simply mount in front of, or just behind the diff.
I challenge you to come up with a better invention than the bicycle
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Kyphonii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kyphonii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 4:56pm
I don't know much but I'm guessing that there are a lot better options available.

So what would happen if I was to tow a quad for several kilometres with the charge back system?
Would the system handle prolonged battery charging by this method.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonescg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 4:58pm
So charging it using regen? A bit like these guys did?


It would work, but there are easier ways
I challenge you to come up with a better invention than the bicycle
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